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Post by goldstar31 on Nov 29, 2010 7:53:39 GMT
As far as I know the Myford collets and the closing nut are not available new. Your only recourse is 'second hand' or someone to make you a special.
Frankly, I would question milling with them. I'd go for a decent proper milling chuck( and have)
Why? I do have a set of Imperial collets and the nut but have to be very careful with them -in the lathe for working out or slippage.
Today, the ER25 collet sets and necessary nut are available from several suppliers- and I personally have had less trouble with my set. However, I must re-iterate, I wouldn't use them for milling.
Others may disagree but that's my tuppenorth.
Norm
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
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Post by Tony K on Nov 29, 2010 8:49:42 GMT
The closing nut is available from Myford - item 1438, price £17.34 + VAT. Under "Collets" here (Down the bottom) The availability of collets is patchy - the popular ones at 1/8" intervals are readily available but the 1/32" interval ones are getting rare. Quite a few collets on eBay - search on Myford collets gets about 10, including metric ones. Otherwise, they come up on eBay regularly like this |
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
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Post by jackrae on Nov 29, 2010 9:07:09 GMT
One other problem with the Myford collets, when compared to the ER range of collets, is that they have a very short gripping length, particularly in the smaller sizes.
Jack
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Post by goldstar31 on Nov 29, 2010 10:43:33 GMT
Mike,
I think that the consensus of opinion is that you should re-think matters.
In your other posting about lathe chucks/jaws, I would ask you to consider the classic use of the 4 jaw and or the faceplate as a more suitable work around.
Why? I have had some very funny moments with dividing heads and rotary tables. Reading between the lines, I would gamble that I have very good(?) company. You wouldn't have posted otherwise.
Good luck
Norm
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Post by goldstar31 on Nov 29, 2010 11:42:23 GMT
Apologies but I have a Warco Mill drill which gives a lot more height anyway.
I would be tempted to bolt on a thickish sheet of mild steel and then bolt down your work in hand for machining.
Older geysers like 'wot I am' would bolt on a steel block on the lathe saddle and pepper it wiv' 'oles, an' taps and thems. I'm merely moving the idea from lathe to miller- which ain't be rocket science.
Does this help?
Norm
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Post by teakfreak on Nov 29, 2010 17:06:29 GMT
I used to have a small milling machine manufactured by The Steam Shop of Earby, Lancs - it was purchased by my late father along with a drilling machine (which I still have) and had the Myford threaded spindle. I could never get the collett to grip milling cutters tightly enough to stop them "creeping" in the collet and suffered a lot of spoiled work as a consequence. The machine wasn't really big enough to accept a proper collet chuck, and I eventually ditched it in favour of a Warco Economy machine which served me well until I decided I wanted something bigger and purchased the Aciera F4 I currently have. It's a long wibnded way of saying I really don't recommend going down the Myford collet route!
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Post by goldstar31 on Nov 29, 2010 19:08:12 GMT
Mike,
You are missing TeakFreak's -and my own advice. Not only will you probably pull the end mill or slot drill out of the collet but you will warp the collet which is only designed to hold within a (say) 3 thous tolerance but you will snap the cutting edges off the cutter as it extends and jams.
And don't ask me how I found out.
regards
Norman
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Post by goldstar31 on Nov 29, 2010 20:01:24 GMT
Mike,
A man convinced against his will
is of the same opinion still.
It's snowing and as Captain Oates remarked:-
I may be away a long time.
Phew!
Norm
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Post by Boadicea on Nov 30, 2010 9:00:48 GMT
I think Tonytrans answered your question and the others have answered another, albeit in a well-meaning fashion. The eBay offering does include the collets and will almost certainly fetch over the ton. However, the nut cannot be difficult to make if you want to go this way or 20 quid from Myford not a fortune. It seems to boil down to how hard you want the mill to work - the myford collets are probably good enough for light to medium work (whatever that is!) and should give you the height you need for most of the time. IMHO of course!  |
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joegib
Seasoned Member
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Post by joegib on Nov 30, 2010 9:35:23 GMT
There were a number of milling machines/ attachments around in the 70s/80s that employed the Myford 2/MT spindle nose — notably the: Amolcowww.lathes.co.uk/amolco/Rodneywww.lathes.co.uk/myford/page18.htmlIn the nature of things they didn't have much headroom and were around long before ER collets became available/affordable for amateurs. So, I imagine most people simply used them to hold endmills with 2MT collets plus the spindle nut rather than with a collet chuck. I certainly used my Amolco in that way and I've no particular recollection of problems with cutter creep as long as the collet/cutter were suitably sized, the nut was properly tightened and the cut was appropriate. Indeed, what sold the machine to me was seeing the machine being operated by A Mole & Co at 70s ME Exhibitions, gently chomping away at steel blocks under the lathe self-act*. Plainly, though, these machines weren't suitable for 'hogging' but were fine for light operations like cleaning up castings or making small workpieces. To be honest, I haven't used the machine for 25 years but it was superseded by a plain old desire for a standalone milling machine, not because it was ineffectual using MT collets. Joe *How often do you see the box shifters actually demonstrating their machines nowadays? And if they do, how often do they use honest-to-god steel rather than cut-with-a-butterknife alloy? |
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kwil
Part of the e-furniture
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Post by kwil on Nov 30, 2010 9:41:08 GMT
If you go to WARCO open day they demonstrate the machines for real. Butterknife alloy seems what everyone uses in the USA, judging by any machine you see on their photos.
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Post by chris vine on Dec 2, 2010 0:00:02 GMT
Hi Mike,
I have used myford collets for some years in the spindle nose of my milling machine. Small Harrison. Usually to hold small carbide cutters.
I am sure it is all wrong, but I bought a second closing nut for this purpose only and machined two flats on it, to fit the spanner from an autolock chuck.
Now I can tighten up the collet good and tight. Of course Norm and others are quite correct in that this is not too good for the collet!
however in mitigation your honours, I only use a couple of metric collets for this work and never use them in the lathe. for the simple reason that I don't have any metric stock of bar!!
I am 100% certain that if you tighten the nut up with more than just fingers, it will do the jobs you have described perfectly.
If you don't want to mill flats on the nut, you could always use a strap wrench. (not a strapping wench!)
Chris.
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Post by goldstar31 on Dec 2, 2010 9:37:15 GMT
I strongly suspect that my 1/2" collet was strained by its previous owner. My fairly hefty grip was never sufficient to avoid slippage.
At the moment, my complete Imperial set is unused but will it sell? I tried to get a few coins for charity for my small Adept chucks etc-- and someone wanted them-- for nothing.
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Post by Boadicea on Dec 2, 2010 18:05:55 GMT
They usually sell well on eBay - maybe not prior to Christmas but a full set (1/32s) in a box will usually fetch 150 - 200 quid. If you put that with your fuel allowance you can keep the old fire burning pretty well!
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Post by goldstar31 on Dec 2, 2010 23:00:33 GMT
Thank you for th advice but may I plug the plight of the Senior Citizens and the disabled at this cold time?
Don't bother with such trivia as chucks and collets but put your heads into a house to see how one or both of them are faring in the cold.
We are merely blocked in with a yard of snow and our gutters are coming down. But others are far more in need of your presence- not your money.
Thank you- in anticipation of your help- for them.
Norman Atkinson
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Post by Boadicea on Dec 3, 2010 13:24:48 GMT
Very much agree Norman and thank you for raising this.
It is really important we think of, and help, those less able to fend for themselves at present.
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kwil
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 383
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Post by kwil on Dec 22, 2010 10:06:06 GMT
You can get an ER series adaptor to myford spindle (not from Myford), so you can use the ER25 collets if you wish.
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joegib
Seasoned Member
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Post by joegib on Dec 23, 2010 8:53:18 GMT
Hi Mike, I'll let other members you've addressed comment on the queries you've posed to them. In the meantime, if you're still concerned about headroom on your milling machine, can I suggest an alternative, cheap solution? I'm referring to making endmill holders from MT2 blanks of the type sold by ArcEuro — see here: www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Blank-End-ArborsYou could drill and ream seatings for, say, 1/4" and and 3/8" endmills in the end of a couple of these blanks. Also cut back the parallel head portions to, say, 1/2" length and machine holes for a couple of grubscrews at 90 degrees. Maybe also grind small flats on the endmills for seating the grubscrews. You won't even need to machine the taper ends for drawbar fitting since the blanks come pre-machined. This way, you'll have holders extending maybe 3/4" beyond the mill's spindle nose as against at least 2" inches using any kind of collet chuck. All this for the price of a single collet, never mind the cost of a collet chuck or even a nose nut. Joe |
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Post by Boadicea on Dec 23, 2010 16:29:33 GMT
.....Hi Chris - didn't notice replies, sorry. Forgive my ignorance, but how is this nut tightened in it's factory form? Does it not have any method of tightening? Mike. ..... Maybe Chris is out Christmas shopping or riding Bongo, so you might accept an answer from a strapping wench - this is what I use. The nut is meant to be hand tightened and just has a knurled edge. Some of us cheat and use a strap-wrench like this - on the lathe but could equally well be on the mill. You could mill some flats on it and use a wrench (or is it a spanner?). The strap is also useful for removing a stubborn chuck or the lid from a jar. I suppose I could clean the lathe!  Attachments:
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joegib
Seasoned Member
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Post by joegib on Dec 24, 2010 10:26:12 GMT
Hi Mike, Just a few final remarks: 1. Jack Rae raised the issue of Myford MT2 collets only accommodating a limited length of cutter shank. No reason to doubt Jack on that but it doesn't seem to be a problem with collets sourced elsewhere. Below is a picture of my 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" collets acquired when 'cheap imports' were probably Polish/Czech-sourced. The shanks of 2 lower endmills/slot drills extend almost to the end of the collet ground taper length (note screwed 'Clarkson' portion through slot). As regards the 1/2" endmill at the top, the end of the fluting actually disappears within the collet so the full plain shank length is accommodated.  2. Kwil mentioned Myford Nose/ER adapters of the kind shown here: www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/info_86340LK.htmlThat's the RDG version priced at around £40. Problem is that there was a lot of debate about the poor concentricity of these adapters (not necessarily the RDG one) some years ago e.g. here: www.modelgeeks.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/uk-model/3009/ER-collets-on-Myford— but I don't know the quality of the current crop. Looks like a bit of a lottery. Problem is, I don't think it will much help your problem anyway. John Stevenson posted a design for a homemade version some years ago — see here:  As you can see from the dimensions, the front of the adapter extends beyond the Myford spindle nose by at least 1.5" which is not much of a gain in headroom over a conventional collet chuck. 3. To summarise, the choices seem to be: (a) MT2 Collets + Myford nose nut — Extension say 0.25"(b) MT2 Endmill Holders — Extension say 0.75"(c) Myford/ER Adapter — Extension 1.5" +(d) Conventional Collet Chuck — Extension 2.0" +Anyway, good luck with your choice whichever way you decide to go. Joe |
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