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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 22:59:37 GMT
JB This photo of Britannia from Nigel Fraser Ker shows the general arrangement: chequerplate in front of the firebox and across the rear of the cab, wooden planks across the centre between the seats, and what looks like sheet plywood on either side in front of the seats and around the sides of the firebox. Regards, John
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 23:06:36 GMT
Thanks John, very useful. JB
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redmog
Part of the e-furniture
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Posts: 461
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Post by redmog on Jan 29, 2011 11:59:15 GMT
JB, I remember a good friend of mine who I visited one day, he was busy in his workshop fabricating miniature hinges for the tender tool store doors for his 3 1/2" Brit, amazing work. Mark I'm going to put some floorboards in: does anybody have any details on this? JB Only that this old picture taken from a Martin Evans G1 book shows them going fore to aft. Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2011 12:36:22 GMT
Thanks Chris. How's the digit? JB
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redmog
Part of the e-furniture
Not Morgan weather
Posts: 461
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Post by redmog on Jan 29, 2011 15:46:46 GMT
Thanks Chris. How's the digit? JB Not to be counted on! Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2011 21:30:14 GMT
Only a couple of hours work done today, stainless steel apron sawn out and fitted. It has to be a close fit around the drag beam. The LBSC drawing puts it 1/4" closer to the backhead, but we can't have that can we! The last time I took this much care with an apron was when I was a member of a certain society for gentlemen of a ritualistic bent...... JB
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 18:32:42 GMT
Half Round Brass NightmaresI'd had enough of tin bashing, so for a rest I thought Id have a go at the half round stuff as I've never tackled it before. It was not a rest as getting it the right shape posed some initial difficulties. I used the Autocad template to start with, as shown here, but it was very time consuming and quite tricky. In the end a template that fitted the windows was made, and mounted on a plate. The brass was annealed and it worked round the former quite easily. I used a couple of toolmaker's clamps to tame the initial two sides! Theye wont be soldered until the riveting is done, as I'll probably slip with the snap and damage it! There's quite a lot of critical path stuff with this cab: e.g. the exit point for the regulator shaft can't be determined until the parallel paths are determined and plotted on the cladding, etc. etc.. The brass chocolate bar was an experiment (failed) in chequer plate making this morning when I didn't have anything better to do.... JB
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Post by chris vine on Feb 1, 2011 19:28:58 GMT
Hi JB,
When I was doing half round brass for the tender and cab sides I made some buttons from mild steel.
They had a diameter which gave the curve for the bend in the brass and then were bigger size overall. The step was the same depth as the thickness of the half round.
(Clear as mud?!)
In use, I clamped the button to the tender (more difficult if you have cut out the window!) and bend brass round it. The step and the bigger diameter stopped the half round from trying to bend the easy way and kept it flat on the job.
Yes, quite a bit of annealing was needed.
At least you are working on the job so that it ends up the shape you want it to.
for the windows, I think I must have done it on a sacrificial piece of plate, marked out like windows....
Chris.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 20:03:23 GMT
Seems to me that you have mastered doing the half round brass JB, looks great. As with most things there are many ways of doing a given job. Chris has given info on his method above and I listed my version of Jack's method for Doncaster in my build thread. Your method works very well to as can clearly be seen in your photo. Good work.
Pete
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 20:11:18 GMT
Chris has given info on his method above and I listed my version of Jack's method for Doncaster in my build thread. Pete Pete. I like Chris's idea of the stepped (grooved?) button: I could use that as the initial corner shaper. I'll have a look for your method on the thread . JB
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 20:21:52 GMT
JB What I was trying to say is your method works very well, I don't think you have anything more to learn from how I did it... Pete
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Post by chris vine on Feb 1, 2011 21:31:42 GMT
Hi again JB,
I found it difficult when doing long bits like all round the edge of the tender, up the front, round reverse curves, along the top, two more reverse curves and then down.
With the little stepped buttons, you could clamp the part made beading in place, then clamp (very firmly with a large G Clamp) the button in place and then work the bead round it. You never end up with the bend in the wrong place.
Sometimes on the really sharp bends, I found it necessary to hammer the bead round using a piece of 16 gauge sheet brass, on edge, between hammer and bead.
The system only really works on bends where you can clamp the button to the work. More difficult where the bead is going the other way. Luckily all the tight bends were on the right side so I could use the button.
You still have to take the bead off when it is all shaped and tap it flat on the surface plate (if you are not a tool maker that is!)
Chris.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 21:48:22 GMT
I feel like I've just come down from the mountain with the tablets. Unless someone has seen this before that is...... Taking Chris's idea forward, I put TWO same diameter grooves in the button, one the thickness of the sheet and one the thickness of the brass, and made the button long enough to go in the vice. The job is supported by the lower groove and you just hold the brass in place with your finger as you bend it round. Voila! Takes about 3 minutes per piece!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 23:05:34 GMT
That is very, very, very, very, very, very (etc.) neat - great idea - so simple yet incredibly easy.
Congrats, A
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2011 8:50:55 GMT
More 'Advice' from You Know Who....
I received this piece by email this morning. The content may have some merit, but it is disheartening for me as I'm 'ploughing my own furrow' at the moment. Surely other people must have clad an LBSC Brit without problems? JB
Just a friendly piece of advice from the acerbic doc who has a small modicum of experience :- Your cab is going to be too wide, which means the tender will have to be the same, and the whole shooting match will be a disaster - it will look ridiculous, plus of course, redesigning the tender measurements, even with your wunnerful autocad, will be a nightmare. Bin your cladding and do it properly. If you want to do one od Curly's designs, stick to the words and music otherwise problems will ensue.
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kwil
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 383
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Post by kwil on Feb 2, 2011 9:41:31 GMT
Who said Curly was always right?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2011 10:55:24 GMT
I agree with kwil, from what I've read of other designs out there some dimensions are incorrect and by a large amount to. At the end of the day it's your loco and that's all that matters. I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to the Britania class but I can not see what all the fuss is about. Even if DJ was right ( I have no idea myself) it surely would only be by a small amount which I doubt would be noticed. Your Brit looks ok to me JB, stick with it mate.. Pete
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2011 12:09:57 GMT
On my 5" Modelworks Britannia the loco is wider than the tender - about 9.5" across the cab and 9" across the tender. It doesn't look particularly noticeable because the cab doors and rear plate are narrower than the cab sides and so blend in with the tender. Nobody has ever pointed it out. I also had a problem with the firebox cladding being too bulky and had to remove some metal from the inside of the running boards and spectacle plates to compensate, but this worked out OK.
I believe (although I stand to be corrected) that this error is not Modelworks' fault but a feature of the Norman Spink plans from which it was derived - apparently Spink started from the Perrier drawings for the loco and the Warnett 9F drawings for the tender. Perhaps they were done to a different scale - 1" to the foot versus 1 1/16"? Doug Hewson makes a point of saying that his new design for the 5" Britannia "gives a loco of the correct finished width".
So I wouldn't be too concerned about the cab being slightly wider than the tender - if the Spink plans do indeed lead to this, you'll be in good company!
Kind regards
John
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2011 12:38:31 GMT
So I wouldn't be too concerned about the cab being slightly wider than the tender - if the Spink plans do indeed lead to this, you'll be in good company! Kind regards John Thanks all, I'll just get on with it and hope that I'm left alone! BTW, I've taken the cheque book option and ordered some chequer plate from Polly Models.. JB
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waggy
Statesman
Posts: 744
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Post by waggy on Feb 3, 2011 10:00:08 GMT
JB,
Take no notice, as others have said, it's your loco. Very often in this game it's not what is right, it's what looks right! I know a chap who built a 3.5" 9F, he always said the hardest part was the cab, so many bends and curves. Carry on regardless, it looks good up to press!
Waggy.
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