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Post by qreidford on May 16, 2011 7:48:00 GMT
Morning All,
More advice needed I'm afraid - I'm just about reaching the end of a long tunnel in modifying the massively oversized cylinder castings for my Stirling and need to solder new bronze piston gland bosses to my modified rear covers - questions are, do I use soft solder or silver solder (I think silver solder) and do I really need acid pickle? I don't have any and with a morbid fear of acid, do I need it or can I just use clean water?
Second question is regarding piston rings - I don't fancy graphite packing much and cast iron rings seem troublesome - what about O rings? which type should I use and where can I find data sheets to give me the correct width and depth of the recess in the piston?
Thanks
Q
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Post by albert on May 16, 2011 8:00:58 GMT
Hello Q, As for piston rings,for "O" rings contact Peter Southworth at Southworth Engines,Or better still fit Clupit rings:-
Clupit Piston Ring & Guage Company. Factory B Solway Industrial Estate Maryport Cumbria CA15 8NF
Tel/fax Day 01900 818361 Night 01946 830262
I have these rings fitted to all my miniatures with 100% success-strongly recomended (only a user)
Albert
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Post by Shawki Shlemon on May 16, 2011 9:54:59 GMT
Q , I am assuming that the castings are gunmetal , any soldering is best done with silver solder ( even that the temperature in the cylinder will not be enough to melt the soft solder ) , there is here a thread on pickling with different options , I cant find it but someone here will . O rings are fine , I have used them actually on Stirling and they are OK , you can also use PTFE yarn of square section , I recently bought some here in OZ , I am sure is available there too .
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isc
Statesman
Posts: 708
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Post by isc on May 16, 2011 12:46:05 GMT
The thing to use for pickling is Citric acid, this is obtained as a powder, from a number of places. First try your local home brew shop. The super market, cookery dept. Garden shop. Last, and a bit expensive is the chemist. As far as teflon goes, Its available here in NZ in the $2 type shops in the form of plumbers tape, that works quite well. isc
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Post by cupalloys on May 16, 2011 14:05:57 GMT
If you are going to use silver solder you can ignore acid pickle cleaning. Just ensure that the parts are free of oil and grease. The temperatures involved with silver soldering will remove any grease from handling. The important point is that the joint is clean at 600 deg not room temperature - that is what the flux is for. For post-braze cleaning, if you wish to stay clear of any pickling solution, use a loved ones tooth-brush and warm running water! If you are going to use soft solder, wash thoroughly to remove any grease, and clean with wire wool. DO NOT USE EMERY CLOTH. For more info go to www.cupalloys.co.ukKeith
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pault
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,496
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Post by pault on May 16, 2011 18:17:02 GMT
Hi Q If you are going to use O rings, you need a good finish on the bores otherwise they won’t last long. I would get two sets. Very often the first set doesn’t last long but the second set fair better. Personally I would endorse what Albert said regarding Clupet rings, not cheap, can take a while to get them, and you can’t beat them. Regards Paul
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russell
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Post by russell on May 16, 2011 18:17:51 GMT
do I really need acid pickle? I don't have any and with a morbid fear of acid, do I need it or can I just use clean water? No, you don't need it. It just makes the cleaning process easier. There is no need to have a fear of acids, just take care when handling the stronger ones. Acids are everywhere; lemon juice - citric acid, vinegar - acetic acid, rainwater contains carbonic acid, your stomach contains fairly strong hydrochloric acid. Personally I use 5% w.w. sulphuric acid solution in water. I always (well mostly) wear rubber gloves and am careful to avoid splashing but yes, I have occasionally splashed it onto my skin however, at this strength, if it's washed of reasonably quickly it won't burn. Goggles are also advised, especially if you don't wear spectacles. Another precaution; I have a locking cover for the tank for when the grandchildren visit. Russell.
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Post by qreidford on May 16, 2011 19:03:29 GMT
Thanks for all the advice, I went ahead and silver soldered then dunked the result in cold clean water. I think I may try the citric acid route - just to clean them up as they are a right mess after heating! Still not made my mind up on the piston ring front -Paul, when you say that the bores need a 'good finish' does that mean honed? I was quite happy with the finish after boring - perhaps I'm just easily pleased Good tip Keith - using wire wool to clean instead of emery cloth for soft solder. Thanks again
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pault
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,496
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Post by pault on May 16, 2011 19:46:14 GMT
Hi Q A normal bored finish when you look in detail is like a screw thread with peaks and troughs. The size and shape of the thread depends on the tool profile and feed rate. However good it looks it will still have the characteristic of a screw thread. The O rings get shaved by the peaks, if they are very small you may get away with just replacing the first set after a relatively short time. The rings seem to manage to shave off the peaks, whether it is because the material of the o ring is slightly abrasive or it gets small bits of material embedded and acts like a lap I don’t know. Honing or lapping is a good way to remove the peaks. One firm I worked for used to “ball size” bores. They were bored very slightly under size, and then a carbide ball was pressed through the bore. This removed the peaks by plastic deformation, and very smooth surface finishes can be achieved. When you use piston rings the surface finish needs to be slightly rough (a relative term) so it holds oil on the surface of the bore. Graphite and PTFE yarn seem to work with most finishes. Hope this helps Regards Paul
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isc
Statesman
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Post by isc on May 17, 2011 11:16:02 GMT
I pressed a ball bearing through the bore of a cylinder for one of my hot air engines,it worked well, you'v just got to have the right size ball, and by coincidence I did. isc
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