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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2011 23:19:18 GMT
Hi folks, In the next few months I hope to get a milling machine and there has been a lot of discussion about the choices. Common concerns seem to be weight, rigidity (including non-tilting and non-swiveling column), power, table size and chuck capacity. Belt drive seems to also be important to give drive train protection against jarring and quieter transmission. When I got my ML7, due to workshop access difficulties, after using an engine hoist to get it to the door, I had to take it apart and rebuild it in-situ, so would look for ease of installation for a milling machine. If I have to strip a mill down anyway to prepare it , that strip down could be used to my advantage, in breaking it into manageable components. If looking for a new one under £1000, there are various to choose from and I attach an Excel sheet of milling machines, with comments about individual mills where possible, and I invite comments from people about their own experiences. Over the last few months I considered various machines suited to me but the Sieg X2 from Arc currently looks interesting. As they won't have any until January, I have time to change or strengthen my opinions! Dave Attachments:
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Post by Tel on Nov 14, 2011 6:10:09 GMT
I have an X2 clone and while it's not a bad little machine it is what it is - a mini mill with limited scope. I went on to buy a 2nd hand RF30, and that is a far more useful size. My choice from your list would be the Sieg X3, although it sounds a bit silvery at the quoted price. www.machineryhouse.com.au/M153 |
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Post by davebreeze on Nov 14, 2011 9:34:58 GMT
It depends what you are going to use it for of course, but I would buy the biggest heaviest machine (with the biggest table) that you can manage/afford, and not worry about whether it has belts or gears. I started with the Sieg X1L from Arc Euro Trade, I was doing gauge 1 size trains at the time and it was fine, but no use for anything bigger. I now have an Elliott Omnimill 'OO' which was £600 on eBay plus £80 to get it delivered. As an industrial machine it seems to be regarded as a bit small and flimsy, but from a model engineering perspective it's big, heavy and solid, and that's what gives it a good 'feel' to work with.
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David Thompson
Active Member
Building 'Marquess', 3 1/2" gauge.
Posts: 46 
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Post by David Thompson on Nov 14, 2011 10:18:13 GMT
I have a Sieg X3 and I am very pleased with it. I had to strip it as you suggest in order to lift it onto its stand. I managed it on my own but I gave myself a fright lifting the head onto the column, even though I had used a sequence of jacks and packing to get it up to almost the right height. I found nothing to put right or complain about during the strip. I wish I could get the Sieg power feed that they make for it. Sterling has slipped a lot since I bought mine, I must admit.
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miken
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 477
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Post by miken on Nov 15, 2011 15:56:13 GMT
Regarding rigidity. When i was looking for a small mill I visited Warco and took a small mag base and dti. I went round all the miils in the showroom and stuck the base on the table of each machine with the stylus against the quill. With all the mill/drill type machines with a round or sqaure column the dti needle moved very easily by just leaning against the machines head or lightly slapping it with the palm of my hand. The only machine that didnt do this was their VMC turret mill.
This is a proper miniature mill with a wind up knee and much more rigid than all the others.
Mike
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wink
Active Member
Posts: 13
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Post by wink on Nov 17, 2011 7:42:46 GMT
I bought a Warco WM-14 last year and I'm quite happy with it. I rejected the Sieg X2 as too small, not as rigid, plus it doesn't have a quill, just a rack and pinion feed on the head. If I had the space, I would probably have gone for the Sieg X3 or the Warco WM-16, but they're both considerably dearer. Agree with other posters - get the biggest mill and longest table you can for your budget & space.
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russell
Statesman
Chain driven
Posts: 762
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Post by russell on Nov 17, 2011 9:55:14 GMT
I wish I could get the Sieg power feed that they make for it. Sterling has slipped a lot since I bought mine, I must admit. How about making a bigger version of this: mikesworkshop.weebly.com/mill-power-feed.htmlThe geared motors are very cheap on FleaBay. Russell. |
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 17, 2011 13:28:24 GMT
I have a bridgeport clone, solid as a rock, also emense power, and a hugh table.
Buy the biggest mill with the biggest table you can cope with, a Warco VMC was going to be my choice if the clone hadn't come up.
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Post by simplex on Nov 17, 2011 14:00:58 GMT
Alternatively here is a compact power feed that I made for my Sieg SX3, using an old car window-winder motor. It has a simple dog clutch which slides into engagement with the end of the feed screw. The motor speed control costs £12 from the likes of ebay or Maplin. Edward Attachments:
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David Thompson
Active Member
Building 'Marquess', 3 1/2" gauge.
Posts: 46
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Post by David Thompson on Nov 17, 2011 15:16:49 GMT
My thanks to Russell and to Simplex for ideas on power feeds for my X3. It is very helpful to get an idea of what sort of motor would be up to the job.
David
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 12:28:15 GMT
I have just noticed that the X3 is on a special Xmas deal at ArcEuro, where you get a collet starter set, clamping set and a much reduced X3 mill, all in cost £799. The offer applies to SIEG factory assembled X3 Small Mills and orders shipped by 15th December 2011, subject to availability. My only concern is the gear drive (noise/break point). The Chester Eagle 25 which has a belt drive is a near price and well reviewed
Dave
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2011 7:30:10 GMT
Bit of a surprise for me and I don't know why I didn't see it before, but Axminster are selling this Sieg universal mill www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-su1-universal-mill-prod854146/ for a price comparable with the X3. It is a little smaller capacity (16mm versus 25mm cutters) with a 500w motor against the X3's 600w. Does anyone have any experience of this mill? Thanks Dave |
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davet
Seasoned Member
Posts: 139
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Post by davet on Nov 29, 2011 8:58:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2011 9:28:11 GMT
I've missed the boat! With all this looking into which milling machine I want to buy and deciding on the X3/Imperial/R8 spindle, now that I contact ArcEuro, they've sold all the Sieg X3/Imperial/R8 spindle they have and the next order will be in late January/early February. Dash, no treat for Christmas! :-(
However, my route to get here has been Sieg X2 --> Amadeal? --> Chester Eagle 25 --> Sieg X3/Imperial/R8 spindle. So I suppose the not dashing at the first start will mean that what I get is the best option for me. It also means I can fix the new electrics for the mill and sort out the dolls house for my daughter's Christmas present. Look at the good side of a poor do (sadly, the price in the new year will go back up again and no freebies, but I'll have to turn a blind eye to that!)
Many thanks for the interest
Dave
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kmp
Active Member
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Post by kmp on Dec 3, 2011 12:32:41 GMT
Dave
Don't worry about the Imperial machine, go for the Metric and use the money saved in the deal towards a basic DRO system, you won't regret it and you can have a Christmas present.
Keith.
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Post by Boadicea on Dec 4, 2011 9:48:17 GMT
Dave Don't worry about the Imperial machine, go for the Metric and use the money saved in the deal towards a basic DRO system, you won't regret it and you can have a Christmas present. Keith. Good one - go for it Dave! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2011 11:28:05 GMT
Firstly, thanks for your support. A little more to the mix, although I think I am decided but something I posted recently elsewhere:- I don't think that, in these economic times, any particular company tries to maximise it's profits excessively, but I do wonder why some similar machines are so vastly different in price. But then, are they really all that similar and is there a hidden cost that you pick up to your grief in a few years. Compare Engineer's Tool Room BMD-20 www.engineerstoolroom.co.uk/bmd-20.htm, Amadeal AMA25LV www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/R8_Spindle.html, Chester Champion 20V www.chestermachinetools.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=24, Warco WM16 www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/32-wm-16-variable-speed-milling-machine.html and ArcEuro Sieg X3 www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-X3-Small-Mill. It is even recommended that the last of the list has a strip down preparation before use, but why not the others? I would be interested in your thoughts on why 'similar' mills vary so much in price. Dave |
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Uzzy
Hi-poster
Posts: 153
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Post by Uzzy on Dec 4, 2011 17:05:48 GMT
Dave,
let us know what you choose, I am looking at a milling machine and wonder if I should go for the Axminster Universal Mill, the best of both worlds? or should I stick to a vertical only mill?
Uzzy
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Post by deverett on Dec 4, 2011 22:39:29 GMT
I bought myself a universal mill. Originally I was thinking of a Tom Senior but after talking about it to some learned machinists, they pointed out that to change from vertical to horizontal mode meant taking off the quill head to install the overarm.
I was pointed in the direction of a Thiel and after a lengthy search, I managed to get one fully tooled. This was in the days before internet and no-one ever mentioned there were other makes of ram type mills such as Aciera or Dekel. The advantage of the ram type mills is that the vertical head stays in place when using the horizontal gear. Having said that, I have never used the machine in horizontal mode!
Dave
The Emerald Isle
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Post by Boadicea on Dec 5, 2011 9:40:05 GMT
Firstly, thanks for your support. A little more to the mix, although I think I am decided but something I posted recently elsewhere:- I don't think that, in these economic times, any particular company tries to maximise it's profits excessively, but I do wonder why some similar machines are so vastly different in price. But then, are they really all that similar and is there a hidden cost that you pick up to your grief in a few years. Compare Engineer's Tool Room BMD-20 www.engineerstoolroom.co.uk/bmd-20.htm, Amadeal AMA25LV www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/R8_Spindle.html, Chester Champion 20V www.chestermachinetools.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=24, Warco WM16 www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/32-wm-16-variable-speed-milling-machine.html and ArcEuro Sieg X3 www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-X3-Small-Mill. It is even recommended that the last of the list has a strip down preparation before use, but why not the others? I would be interested in your thoughts on why 'similar' mills vary so much in price. Dave Dave, I have a friend who did buy the last in the list and is very pleased with it. With the square, dovetailed column it is very firm compared to a round column. He took the option to do the set-up himself, to their supplied procedure, and found it quite straight-forward. Maybe the cheaper ones do not do the setting up, and indeed when dealing with some of them it is apparent they would not have the skills. Most previous comments on the forum have suggested this kind of attention is needed at the start. Next questions then - metric/imperial, MT3/R8 and DRO/not DRO. My opinion (worth next to nothing!) is metric, MT3 and DRO, but comes at a price. |
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