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Post by The Red Baron on Nov 22, 2014 20:10:48 GMT
Hi all,
As there isn't a 'medical' section I have put this here.
I've just been told that I need to have a pacemaker fitted and was wondering if any members here who already have one can give me some practical advice.
Is it still possible to use 'our' kind of machines? I have three that work with inverter drives and three with single phase motors. My G.P. says I should be OK but my Cardiologist isn't too sure (not really any help)
I really don't want to give up my hobby and just wondered what others have done.
Many thanks in anticipation
Manfred
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pault
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,496
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Post by pault on Nov 22, 2014 20:29:46 GMT
Steer clear of arc welding or similar processes, the magnetic fields created can upset pacemakers, I believe that machine tools cause no problems
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 22:01:35 GMT
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Post by Roger on Nov 22, 2014 22:09:05 GMT
The whole point of EMC standards is to avoid issues with any electrical goods. Remember when you were a kid and a passing motorbike or car could interfere with the Radio or TV? That's exactly the sort of thing that this legislation seeks to prevent and it's pretty draconian. The tests are very robust and you have to document all the parts you use in your equipment and you're not allowed to change anything without a re-test. So unless you go for an MRI scan (I wouldn't recommend it) then I wouldn't worry.
Is this all a result of handing over that Warco cheque?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 23:14:23 GMT
No Roger---it's not me with the pacemaker.....But it did have a similar effect.LoL !!
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Post by alanstepney on Nov 23, 2014 8:36:45 GMT
The things to worry about are electric welders or plasma cutters.
No arc, MIG or TIG. (You might get away with it, but equally, it might kill you! Dont take the chance.)
Also, those large soldering guns can cause problems. Ordinary soldering irons are OK.
Do NOT keep you rmobile phone in your shirt pocket either.
I also do Amateur Radio, and most things in that hobby are also OK.
High power transmitters IF they are feeding an aerial or dummy load, dont pose a risk.
(Dont let them run without a load, but you shouldnt do that anyway.)
Overall, it will make no difference to your hobbies.
Ask if you want more info
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 23, 2014 8:53:50 GMT
I don't know whether Remap have any info?
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,333
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Post by jackrae on Nov 23, 2014 9:40:48 GMT
I don't know whether Remap have any info? Is that on the basis that we who do Remap (Really Elderly Men At Play) are a bunch of old codgers with a high percentage of pacemakers in our midst. There's nothing in our technical section on the subject but I'll put a query out on their website for you and see what responses I get. Electric welding, in whatever form, invariably excites my heart and I don't even have a pacemaker  |
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,438
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Post by dscott on Nov 23, 2014 13:40:10 GMT
I hear that the modern ones are adjustable so if there is any excitement (see list below) it can cater for this and you dont run out of steam!!!
Buying any form of machine tool especially green ones!!
Collecting a new steam driven project on a station!!
Watching an excited departure of a main line steam locomotive in unusual teritory!!
Seeing your locomotive chassis burst into action for the first time on air!!
Followed by seeing her in steam!! NO dont do the drive that may be too much!
Going to a preserved Railway when there are more than four large locomotives in steam!!
Being taken clothes shopping on a hot sunny day in deepest China or the Philippines!!!
There may be more...
David.
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Post by The Red Baron on Nov 23, 2014 18:22:45 GMT
Thanks for all your help chaps - very useful.
I'm still a little concerned about the RFI generated by my inverter drives, does anyone with a pacemaker fitted actually use these. I have thought of enclosing them in earthed metal enclosures as they all have plastic boxes.
Regards
Manfred
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,333
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Post by jackrae on Nov 23, 2014 20:42:23 GMT
But a real b*gger if you end up welding yourself to the bench.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 20:45:41 GMT
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 24, 2014 8:48:40 GMT
I don't know whether Remap have any info? Is that on the basis that we who do Remap (Really Elderly Men At Play) are a bunch of old codgers with a high percentage of pacemakers in our midst. There's nothing in our technical section on the subject but I'll put a query out on their website for you and see what responses I get. Electric welding, in whatever form, invariably excites my heart and I don't even have a pacemaker Not a clue what REMAP stands for, I just know that it's the field they work in, and so might have answers to these types of questions. |
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,333
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Post by jackrae on Nov 24, 2014 11:30:46 GMT
Is that on the basis that we who do Remap (Really Elderly Men At Play) are a bunch of old codgers with a high percentage of pacemakers in our midst. There's nothing in our technical section on the subject but I'll put a query out on their website for you and see what responses I get. Electric welding, in whatever form, invariably excites my heart and I don't even have a pacemaker Not a clue what REMAP stands for, I just know that it's the field they work in, and so might have answers to these types of questions. REMAP A national charity that specialises in the design and manufacture of aids for those with disabilities. We differ from commercial organisations in that what we make is unique (ie isn't produced commercially) and is provided free of charge to the client. For further info have a look at our website www.remap.org.uk or our case file www.remapedia.org.ukModel engineers are particularly sought out as potential volunteers on the basis that they are adept at design and manufacture |
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 24, 2014 11:31:33 GMT
Didn't realise you were part of it!
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,333
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Post by jackrae on Nov 24, 2014 18:43:08 GMT
Apart from the simple and logically obvious answer of "read the manufacturer's limitation-of-use instructions" here's the text of a response I received from a colleague in Remap
"There is a “definitive answer” which is to obey the manufacturers recommendations!
Suppliers of pacemakers recommend users to avoid strong magnetic fields particularly mentioning arc welders and airport scanners, and not keeping your mobile phone in your left breast pocket. I have used a small TIG welder and a small spot welder with no ill effects. However, I think my pacemaker was temporarily disabled some years ago when I passed through a scanning arch that could not be avoided. (In a high security prison). I subsequently felt faint and found my pulse rate was slow and erratic for about twenty minutes – whilst I sat down and was given a cup of tea. If it was an issue with the pace maker, and I cannot be certain, it recovered OK but I now insist on not going through the scanners at airports and always get frisked instead.
Pacemakers communicate via a wireless link for programming and reporting back a history of heart activity. I do not know if it is this that makes them vulnerable or the fact that they have wires attached that could act as an aerial and might generate an unacceptable voltage in the presence of a powerful AC field.
Whatever the case one can but marvel and respect the technology that can keep your heart beating for up to eight years without a change of battery."
That may well not answer the OP question but I suspect no manufacturer is going to give a 100% guarantee of "safe-to-use".
If you insist upon ignoring any supplier's instructions not to use a welder there are obvious simple measures that may help save your life. Magnetic field density reduces as the cube of distance, so unless you are physically lying across the welder the field strength, assuming a reasonable distance, may be too low to affect any medical device. Similarly, unless you wrap the welding cable over your shoulder (it is often done) then the field strength in the vicinity of your chest may also be too low to affect your device. But you take the risk and face the consequence.
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Post by alanstepney on Nov 24, 2014 19:32:26 GMT
A fellow radio ham knows the MD of the company that made the pacemaker I am fitted with, and arranged for me to to talk to him.
An interesting guy who is both a model engineer and a radio ham, and hence we had a long an interesting conversation.
Use common sense and stay away from welders etc, is the basis of what he told me.
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,333
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Post by jackrae on Nov 25, 2014 19:10:32 GMT
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Post by The Red Baron on Nov 25, 2014 20:31:14 GMT
Thanks again chaps, especially jackrae and alanstepney. I feel a little more comfortable that I will be able to carry on with my hobby now.
I have no intention of doing any welding - I was useless at it anyway and any that I need doing can be done for me by a coded welder at the cub when I am somewhere around the track. He will make a much better job than I would have done anyway.
My only remaining question remains the R.F. interference from the single to three phase inverters that drive my lathe, drill and hacksaw- or do I need to invest in single phase motors?
Regards
Manfred
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,333
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Post by jackrae on Nov 25, 2014 22:19:14 GMT
As Roger has said, commercial electronic units have to pass extremely strict standards with regards to electronic noise emission, so I surmise that the use of inverters does not present a realistic hazard to one's health.
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