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Post by steamcoal on Nov 27, 2014 20:34:34 GMT
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Post by Roger on Nov 27, 2014 21:40:39 GMT
Someone else pointed me to this a while back, I think it's interesting too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 21:42:57 GMT
yep me too....was planing to learn it off by heart and see if the same can be done in miniature......probably very similar'''
Pete
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Post by Roger on Nov 27, 2014 23:29:09 GMT
yep me too....was planing to learn it off by heart and see if the same can be done in miniature......probably very similar''' Pete I'll enjoy your impersonation of the BBC accent they use on the film... very 1950's
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Post by goldstar31 on Nov 27, 2014 23:50:27 GMT
I was watching Coronation Scot instead and wondering who was driving. Mebbe Great Uncle Harry Ward out of Carlisle.
Interesting. Took me back to the early 1950's and a fireman called Norman Stubbs- George Medal. We made model planes together.
Thank you
Norman
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 1:50:50 GMT
yep me too....was planing to learn it off by heart and see if the same can be done in miniature......probably very similar''' Pete ------------ maybe not up to 5"gauge ( No brick arches, deflector plates or proper dampers ) but 7.25"gauge and upwards you can expect to be firing more in the manner of the 12" lads !! The "little and often" rule applies to all though.. So that's why even on our continuous loop tracks you don't try to memorise a particular point to fire, because the situation is constantly changing eg}--- Last time you had half the load of this time PLUS you've had a STOP signal en-route as well.OR}--- you've taken on a different grade of coal maybe...So you learn to fire by "Reading the vital signs" and reacting accordingly.......This is a very good training film and it pays to re-visit now and again, just to refresh your memory.....................PS}---Isn't that the normal Sussex voice then,Roger ??
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Post by steamcoal on Nov 28, 2014 4:33:43 GMT
I was reading Martin Evans book on "The Atlantic Era" of which In have my own volume coming as I am an Atlantic owner and driver, and it was also interesting to read about the time keeping and impressive hauling figures that were offer for various routes.
Considering the distinct lack of electronics,( none! ) the keeping of schedules and timekeeping must have been a real credit to the drivers and fireman.
Is it true that locos were operated by teams of men, some of which paired together for a longtime and had envious reputations for locomotive operation and efficiency for their respective railway companies?
Were women ever on the footplate? Dear I ask?
Glad you enjoyed this find on youtube. I must watch it again just to keep on top of the game!!
Hayden
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 9:27:37 GMT
yep me too....was planing to learn it off by heart and see if the same can be done in miniature......probably very similar''' Pete ------------ maybe not up to 5"gauge ( No brick arches, deflector plates or proper dampers ) but 7.25"gauge and upwards you can expect to be firing more in the manner of the 12" lads !! The "little and often" rule applies to all though.. So that's why even on our continuous loop tracks you don't try to memorise a particular point to fire, because the situation is constantly changing eg}--- Last time you had half the load of this time PLUS you've had a STOP signal en-route as well.OR}--- you've taken on a different grade of coal maybe...So you learn to fire by "Reading the vital signs" and reacting accordingly.......This is a very good training film and it pays to re-visit now and again, just to refresh your memory.....................PS}---Isn't that the normal Sussex voice then,Roger ?? ahh but who says these can't be incorporated on a large 5" locomotive...Don has already included the front damper, adding a rear wouldn't take much, in fact it would be much easier than the front. brick arch I have already given a little thought too and will look more into this when i get to that stage, deflector plate may be a little more problematic purely because of it's life expectancy.....all these things I will certainly be looking at very closely.....anythings possible... we shall see... Pete
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Post by chris vine on Nov 28, 2014 9:51:41 GMT
Yes, very good.
The sounds are interesting as they must have been dubbed on later:
The rails are going tickety tick tickety tick. Which is what you hear in a passenger carriage. But if you travel on a loco on the mainline (not with welded track) then you hear tick tick tick tick tick tick...........tick tick tick tick tick tick (depends how many axles the engine has!)
I found this out in the Ukraine many years ago on a steam tour. Only myself and one other were interested in travelling on the footplate. The ticket was a packet of Marlboro cigarettes which, because of a good tip-off, I had purchased a bumper duty free pack!!
The locos were all brought out of retirement from their strategic reserve and the train used to be the KGB special..
Sadly I doubt if it is possible to do this in the Ukraine today.
Chris.
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,572
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Post by Tony K on Nov 28, 2014 9:57:49 GMT
I think it might not scale down that much but I found experience helped at 5in. gauge.
When I first started driving, I shovelled loads of coal on - my goal being not to run out of steam and avoid the ultimate humiliation of pushing the loco home. I can remember having the fire in the club Simplex (in the avatar but you must not call it "Thomas") roaring away at the level of the fire-hole door and steam blowing off at the rate which would probably be enough for full-size.
After a while I got to be more familiar with the loco, and, more relaxed. This meant I could reduce the shovelling, keep the pressure up without blowing off so much and relax even more. Over a period of time, as the experience grew, I found I could reduce the shovelling even more. Eventually I could coal-up and operate the injectors on the move and therefore reduce the peaks and troughs.
Of course, the bigger the engine, the bigger the thermal momentum and less need for urgent action and I certainly found this when I fired a Springbok and even more so with a Britannia. In other words, confidence grew. I have yet to use the colour of the smoke as an indicator at my gauge, but it has made me think it might have at least some relevance! It will be interesting to hear from greenglade.
My humble experience of course.
I expect Chris had a good trip using the local currency - I always thought "he has something of the night about him!"
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 10:20:52 GMT
Well-spotted re} the sound track !!------also did you notice that the fire was quite "tame" for most of the time ? Yes, the loco was moving but not at the speed the sound track would suggest ... Probably done for the sake of the camera operator... Anyone who has been on a footplate at 60mph approx. ( calculated that from the rail joint sounds --- ) will know that the fall-plate is constantly sliding, rising and falling....Tony's spot-on..Like a lot of things in life experience is the best teacher...........
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Post by chris vine on Nov 28, 2014 11:06:21 GMT
Something of the night about ... Now Now Tony!!!
See you at Sandown?? I will get my own back...
Chris.
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Post by Rob on Nov 28, 2014 11:50:17 GMT
Well-spotted re} the sound track !!------also did you notice that the fire was quite "tame" for most of the time ? Yes, the loco was moving but not at the speed the sound track would suggest ... Probably done for the sake of the camera operator... Anyone who has been on a footplate at 60mph approx. ( calculated that from the rail joint sounds --- ) will know that the fall-plate is constantly sliding, rising and falling....Tony's spot-on..Like a lot of things in life experience is the best teacher........... Sadly, some of us have to rely on videos as we've never had the privilege! I did stand on the footplate of the Duke when I was a very small boy, but alas it was stationary in Platform 1 at Newport at the time!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 13:35:22 GMT
I understand how you must feel........... but it's a Hard-Earned privilege and one not given lightly of course.....Several years as a cleaner, then as a "Passed Cleaner" will see you there.........But don't despair and do keep watching those videos as they are the real thing after all...........Mention of the Duke of Gloucester reminds me of this, which has been on here just recently but I thought you might like to "Sit-in" with the crew ??...................... www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHuYeYttBb8 ---------- Watch and see what the the Driver looks at...and take note of the Fireman's technique = both feet planted square and firm with a nice, steady rate and not overloading the shovel ...
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Post by Roger on Nov 28, 2014 15:52:54 GMT
I don't know what the obsession was with the Old School for keeping new recruits grinding slowly upwards at a snail's pace in industry, but it seems to have been the norm. Nobody expects to go in at the top, but it seems like a painfully slow rate of progress. I suppose there were only so many jobs at the top and it was a way of weeding out all but the most keen. I'm sure that a year's worth of cleaning would teach you 95% of all there is you could possibly learn from doing that. Any further time was just a waste of talent and cheap labour in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 16:07:58 GMT
not sure I agree with you there Roger... there's more to a job than just learning how to go through the motions...some things can only be learnt on the job....respect for the equipment being used is one. Learning both the right way and wrong way's of doing things and why, no cutting corners to save time which would probably be the case if just jumped in at the deep end. You also learn from others mistakes which do and will happen, no matter how good they are. Talent is all very well but it's useless and dangerous in some trades if the person with the talent hasn't started at the bottom and worked their way up, only by doing this will they gain the experience required to do their job well and safely. Probably the best way of describing what I mean is to compare it with one of her majesty's forces...no good putting a talented tactician in command if he's had no training, no idea of what discipline is of what it means to be in the front line, well at least that's how I see it..
Pete
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Post by ejparrott on Nov 28, 2014 16:49:50 GMT
Yes you can't learn to fire an engine from a book and then go out and haul 800 tons from Euston to Carlisle with a Duchess, she'll eat you for breakfast! Come to think of it, the same can be said for a Talyllyn engine. You can't learn it from a book, you have to learn it by doing it many many many times, every day is different, both trips are almost always different
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Post by alanstepney on Nov 28, 2014 17:12:01 GMT
Long ago, when I was in me teens, I fired a couple of GWR pannier tanks, and even "fired" (well, added some coal) a GWR Castle. In fact, I drove some panniers, and even "drove" a castle. (I opened the regulator whilst the driver was hovering over me).
Interesting experiences, but it was nothing like doing the job for real, and just showed me how little I knew. It also showed me that there was a vast difference between handling a 12" loco and a 3.5" gauge one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 17:30:45 GMT
Anyone who believes they know all there is to know about operating a steam engine should be avoided at all costs! Experience counts for more than anything in this game, you are forever learning as there are infinite variables either side of the cab operationally. That goes for any gauge, any size, on the road or on the rails. There was always a reason for the slow progression and until you got to the next level you never really understood what it was. I can hold my own when it comes to operating a 12" to the foot loco but am always learning from experience and others experiences but put me in charge of a 5" engine and I'm a total novice who understands what is supposed to happen and not a lot more, that's when the learning starts all over again. Just my opinion Cheers Ben
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Post by Roger on Nov 28, 2014 19:35:02 GMT
I broadly agree with the opinions expressed so forcefully here but my point is this. How much more can you learn from cleaning a locomotive after say 1 year? How about 5 years, or 10 years? There's a diminishing return for every additional year spent, that's the point I was trying to make. It's the same with most skills as far as I can see. Think about how much you've learned about driving a car in the past year. I bet it's not much.
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