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Post by fostergp6nhp on Mar 15, 2015 11:51:48 GMT
I only suggested meths as I remember it was the norm at the old RMES track for lighting up, and yes you need care in the use. Get the soaked charge in and close the container placing it out of range, follow up with dry.
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Post by houstonceng on Mar 15, 2015 13:47:16 GMT
I vote for white spirits. Have one "can" of new, one can of old for paint to settle out of and one for reuse. Once the paint has settled in the old, decant to reuse. Initial cleaning of brushes is carried out with reuse and this is then transferred into my loco light up jar.
Final cleaning is done with new and that is then pored into the old can, etc, etc.
Of course, if you don't paint anything, you'll just have to use new for boiler lighting.
I also put dregs of cellulose thinners in my light-up jar (after using hammerright or cellulose paint) makes the jar smell of pear drops.
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jem on Mar 15, 2015 17:24:17 GMT
Wood a little gas poker be a good idea, easy to make, and run of a camping gaz bottle? I made a gas poker to light the fire with many years ago, and it makes fire lighting so easy.
jem
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2015 22:06:43 GMT
28 second heating oil/kero is the "number one" at my club, mostly because a few of us have oil heating. I don't think your loco would notice the difference to C1 paraffin. I am always surprised by the motley containers that come out, if I'm carrying paraffin in my car I don't want to smell it for weeks! Julian, please expand on your "as for firelighting, the mind boggles", if there are any amusing stories...
For anyone considering the gel bbq stuff, personally I found it rubbish even for its intended purpose, let alone locos! I ended up using paraffin to light the BBQ...
Regards,
James.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 15, 2015 22:34:47 GMT
well, james,
here goes! one bright spark advocated the use of 'firelighters' to light up the club loco (i had moved away from that club by then, so wasnt on hand to advise otherwise, though i had a certain keen interest in the said club loco having helped build it and complete it). it came as no surprise awhile later to hear that some of the tubes were blocked up with tar, and the tar had to be removed with a specially made cutter. i believe that since then good counsel has prevailed and the LBSC tradition of charcoal soaked in paraffin (im sure LBSC would have used BBQ lighter fuel had it been available in his day!) has subsequently been used!
cheers, julian
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Post by peterseager on Mar 15, 2015 23:27:30 GMT
In my club several of us use wood and fire/BBQ lighters with satisfactory results. You get less smoke during the lighting up as well. I used to use charcoal soaked in white spirit then went to charcoal and fire lighters because I reasoned you actually had to burn off or evaporate the white spirit before the charcoal will light - hence the smoke. When I acquired the Manor I went to wood and firelighters because I got fed up with stuffing lots of little bits of charcoal into the firebox.
Peter
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 15, 2015 23:46:00 GMT
hi peter,
wood and firelighters create tar in the tubes on a cold boiler when lighting up. charcoal is a superior lighting up fuel to wood. it is also a superior fuel to wood in other circumstances.
do a few tests! in the garden light up some paraffin soaked wood, paraffin soaked charcoal, firelighters on their own, charcoal soaked in BBQ liquid fuel, and white spirit soaked in wood and charcoal, and see which produces the least smoke! choose that which has the least smoke! i think you might be rather surprised!
and have a close look at the internal deposit on your loco's tubes after using firelighters a few times!
we did put embalming fluid on a fire once (not a loco fire but a club bonfire) and i wouldnt advise using embalming fluid under any circumstances!
cheers, julian
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Post by springcrocus on Mar 15, 2015 23:49:20 GMT
...we did put embalming fluid on a fire once (not a loco fire but a club bonfire) and i wouldnt advise using embalming fluid under any circumstances! cheers, julian I'm assuming you are referring to your IW days - it appears I have missed many a good time at Broadfields. Steve
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 15, 2015 23:53:44 GMT
hi steve,
yes, it was at Broadfields, and Peter Craddock was ill for a week afterwards. the embalming fluid was provided by 'Sticky Ron' - John The Pump and Wilf will know who im referring to! must have been 25 years ago!
cheers, julian
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Post by peterseager on Mar 16, 2015 0:14:56 GMT
All I can say is that some people have used firelighters and wood for years without any problems. Maybe we are lucky with the brand of fire lighters sold in our area. The tubes are always cleaned after a run - even with white spirit and charcoal.
Peter
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Post by steamcoal on Mar 16, 2015 1:27:49 GMT
You call it white spirits, we call it mineral turpentine. It is used for cleaning paint brushes.
Summary.
Meths- Definate No No because of invisible flame. Diesel- Generally no. White Spirits- Yes BBQ Gel- Maybe BBQ Lighter fluid -OK Embalming fluid, only if your life depends on it! Paraffin/Kerosene- Good and traditional Soaked Wood sticks- Bungs up tubes Soaked Charcoal, (Namibian or not)- Good
Anything else??
Ahh ....its a great hobby, such variety.
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Post by ejparrott on Mar 16, 2015 9:35:29 GMT
We had to make a scraper to get the crap out of my hunslets tubes...every time we ran..the brush will not shift it!
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Post by houstonceng on Mar 16, 2015 10:13:54 GMT
I used to use charcoal soaked in white spirit then went to charcoal and fire lighters because I reasoned you actually had to burn off or evaporate the white spirit before the charcoal will light - hence the smoke. Peter You are somewhat correct that the accelerant - be it parrafin, alcohol, diesel or whatever - tends to evaporate but, essentially, it burns off itself before setting fire to the sticks, charcoal or whatever was soaked in it. Too much soaked material added on the top will create a lot of fumes that are unburnt accelerant. I have found that the best way to light up is the put a small amount of soaked material on the grate and light this. Fit your electric blower or whatever you use to draw the fire and, when that is good and burning, put on top some DRY charcoal. The burning accelerant will set fire to the dry stuff, and when that looks like it's glowing, put on the coal. Back in my youth, it was my job to light the open fire that most houses had in a living-room before central heating became the norm. The art was to build the fire from the bottomm up with materials having increasing "flash points", in my case newspaper, then wood, then coal (after the clean air act, smokeless fuel). A match was then lit and the paper ignited under the grate. Perfect fire if left to get on with burning whilst I made the morning cuppa. BTW. I was probably about 5 and allowed to do this. Does anyone allow a 5 year old to boil a kettle, let alone light a fire these days ? My thoughts about a gas poker ? Would it burn OK with the blower on and it buried under the coal ? Perhaps it would be OK if fitted in the ash pan.
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jem on Mar 16, 2015 14:12:01 GMT
Hi Andy,
a gas poker could be incorporated into the blower perhaps? I have a used oil furnace for melting aluminum, and I start it with charcoal in the bottom, and gas blowing from a torch down the blower tube, which is at the bottom of the furnace, This also heats up the oil pipe and gets everything going very well.
Jem
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Post by peterseager on Mar 16, 2015 14:39:00 GMT
I used to use charcoal soaked in white spirit then went to charcoal and fire lighters because I reasoned you actually had to burn off or evaporate the white spirit before the charcoal will light - hence the smoke. Peter You are somewhat correct that the accelerant - be it parrafin, alcohol, diesel or whatever - tends to evaporate but, essentially, it burns off itself before setting fire to the sticks, charcoal or whatever was soaked in it. Too much soaked material added on the top will create a lot of fumes that are unburnt accelerant. I have found that the best way to light up is the put a small amount of soaked material on the grate and light this. Fit your electric blower or whatever you use to draw the fire and, when that is good and burning, put on top some DRY charcoal. The burning accelerant will set fire to the dry stuff, and when that looks like it's glowing, put on the coal. Back in my youth, it was my job to light the open fire that most houses had in a living-room before central heating became the norm. The art was to build the fire from the bottomm up with materials having increasing "flash points", in my case newspaper, then wood, then coal (after the clean air act, smokeless fuel). A match was then lit and the paper ignited under the grate. Perfect fire if left to get on with burning whilst I made the morning cuppa. BTW. I was probably about 5 and allowed to do this. Does anyone allow a 5 year old to boil a kettle, let alone light a fire these days ? My thoughts about a gas poker ? Would it burn OK with the blower on and it buried under the coal ? Perhaps it would be OK if fitted in the ash pan. Your method is similar to that used with the firelighters. The BBQ lighters told you in the instructions to put a little charcoal over the grate then the lighters. We use one (or half a big one) at the back, one in the middle and one at the front. Light and add wood or charcoal. When using charcoal soked with white spirit I used a small firelighter. It seemed to act as a pilot light. I remember relaying the open fire as you described. Was one of my Saturday morning jobs to earn my pocket money. Peter
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Post by houstonceng on Mar 16, 2015 14:59:25 GMT
Hi Andy, a gas poker could be incorporated into the blower perhaps? I have a used oil furnace for melting aluminum, and I start it with charcoal in the bottom, and gas blowing from a torch down the blower tube, which is at the bottom of the furnace, This also heats up the oil pipe and gets everything going very well. Jem The blower I referred to is really a fan which provides a reduced pressure at the chimney of the locomotive to draw air through the fire bars and fire. Interesting challenge to provide forced pressure with a gas burner at the firebox end !
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 15:46:27 GMT
There was a tradition on full size engines of starting a fire in the boiler using a shovel full of live coals from another engine already in steam .
Never tried that on a miniature engine but possible in principle to get some charcoal burning well in a tin using a blowlamp and then shovel the burning charcoal into the firebox .
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61962
Seasoned Member
Posts: 129
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Post by 61962 on Mar 16, 2015 23:49:24 GMT
Like Andy I've lit up with used white spirit for years. Feels ECO friendly to me. I'm sure when I started with model locos forty years ago that meths soaked charcoal was the norm, at least in our club. I recently had a go with Meths as I was expecting to have to light up indoors, but I couldn't get it to go, perhaps because my blower isn't powerful enough for this method. One issue with some paraffin in recent years has been that it doesn't burn very well! I think that it has additives that inhibit combustion when not being burnt in a wick or a gas turbine.
In answer to Micheal, I have tried the fire transfer on a model, but it isn't very successful, so you might as well do it the normal way. My experience with full size locos lighting the fire from another loco was that by the time you'd pulled out a clinker shovelfull of hot coals out of the fire hole, manoeuvered it through the cab doors and on to the ground, across to your engine, up on to the footplate and in to the firebox, there wasn't enough heat left in it to light a fag, let alone raise steam. Perhaps with a hot engine that still had steam after the firebox had been cleaned you might have a chance, but not with a cold boiler. We always used the traditional paper, sticks, coal method, sometimes with an odd shovel of diesel if things weren't going well, although one day when things were getting a bit behind I did have to stop one of our volunteers from throwing a bucket full of diesel on to a fire that had been going for over an hour. Could have been interesting!
One other experience was turning up at the track without a light. I these days of non smoking, there wasn't a soul with a lighter or a match, so someone said there's a grinder in the workshop, get a bit of steel on it and light some of your soaked charcoal with the sparks. No chance - after twenty minutes trying a smoker turned up and saved the day.
Eddie
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 17, 2015 0:09:32 GMT
when i started this lark there was a very 'set' procedure for lighting up. charcoal from a dustbin was added to a 'Fray Bentos' tin and splashed with paraffin and allowed awhile to soak in. contents apart from a shovelfull shoved into firebox. shovelfull left of charcoal lit with ONE MATCH on loco shovel! (ONE MATCH was apparently VERY important!). we had 12V and 24V for our electric blowers. start off with 12V and pop in shovelfull of lighted charcoal. after about 30 seconds switch from 12V to 24V. watch the chimney and when the smoke turned to thin grey, have a look at the fire and if well alight, 'FILL AND FORGET' with coal. oil round, and build another layer on the fire of coal if previous amount well lit and becoming burnt through. 'FILL AND FORGET' again. get the passenger trolleys ready and check the couplings.
pressure gauge starting to move 'off the mark'. check that when you checked the blowdowns when cold they were actually closed!
take electric blower off around 20psi and crack open the steam blower. keep the firebox well filled with coal.
safety valves both start to lift. check that both work ok then turn on both injectors in turn to check that they both work plus quieten things down a bit. add more coal. blow loco whistle, and shout at someone to set the signals and release the traverser.
then onto track - and away - usually within 8 minutes of lighting the ONE MATCH!
cheers, julian
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