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Post by alanstepney on Mar 27, 2015 8:52:43 GMT
THE popular miniature railway at Poole Park has been temporarily closed after a carriage overturned and a passenger had to be taken to hospital.
The incident took place on Monday and Borough of Poole immediately suspended the railway's operations and launched an investigation into what happened and why.
It occurred when the engine towing three carriages was on its third circular trip of the day around the lake in the Victorian Park. The first two trips were completed safely.
However on the train's next tour of the lake, the third carriage, in which three passengers were travelling, tipped over onto its side.
See:http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/11884409.Poole_Park_Railway_closed_after_passenger_injured_as_carriage_overturned/
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Post by steamcoal on Mar 27, 2015 9:47:13 GMT
It is unfortunate but it is a fact of railways, rolling stock and engines will at some time derail. Martin Evans wrote that in his book of building miniature railways.
Ships sink, cars crash, children fall over and accidents will always happen. We try to prevent it but it has happened before and will in the future.
Looks a rather substantial railway and been going since 1949. I wonder how many hundred of thousands of customers have enjoyed the trip?
Hope they were fine.
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gwr7800
Part of the e-furniture
Member of Portsmouth mes
Posts: 384
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Post by gwr7800 on Mar 27, 2015 13:08:15 GMT
As I live on the south coast it's just been on our local radio, nothing to add to Alan's post, the powers that be are investigating, wonder if it will be on local tv as well?
We start our club running on Sunday with paying passengers so a timely reminder indeed! Regards Chris
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,064
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Post by jem on Mar 27, 2015 17:51:04 GMT
Once health and safety get their mitts in that will be the end they allow for no accidents!!
Jem
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Post by andyhigham on Mar 27, 2015 20:35:37 GMT
I wonder who was riding on the derailed car? teenagers/children messing around?
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Post by steamcoal on Mar 27, 2015 21:02:12 GMT
I plan to ask my MES as to the status of "us"'ie the fully financial members and our position in relation to HSE running in an enclosed site (our club site) and if we are able to operate in an experimental sense without public on site. A paid subscription makes one a "member" in my eyes and you accept any liability for ones own personal safety and injury that may take place as a consequence of one own doing. Once you invite public inside ,paying or not, you are now subject to HSE requirements and a passenger hauling operation if rides are offered.
I have an issue having impressed on me the full mamby pamby HSE rules that apply to public hauling when I just want to run by myself. I also have an issue with our club currently operating like an "open home" for people to wonder in and about, compromising "our/my " liability responsibilities.
My interpretation is that as a financial member of our club we/I should have the ability to carry out running and experimental work as I/we please and be allowed to do this without intervention from HSE and amusement device rules. I should be able to operate my own engine and equipment, with valid boiler certificate, but if I want to experiment with a new arrangement and have an issue I take that upon my own bat and are solely the responsible person.
As soon as non-financial public are admitted to our club site I would correctly say that my liability changes to public hauling.
Public hauling like this Bournemouth incident is pure commercial hauling and I would without doubt see that HSE will be involved. It appears to be commercial and has done since 1940's.
Does a membership of a MES constitute "private" status in terms of a club situation and allow for self imposed accident liability? I am happy to accept responsibility for my actions.
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Post by Jim Scott on Mar 27, 2015 21:02:24 GMT
Hi Alan
A timely reminder at the start of the passenger carrying season.
When such derailments occur one tends to jump to the conclusion that the passengers have been larking about causing the carriage to overbalance. Indeed this is nearly always the case, especially in the smaller gauges. However, looking through the usual inane comments that this type of web article invites there appears to be an eyewitness account which seems genuine to me:
margiejordan says...
I witnessed the accident as I was in the front carriage with my 2 year old granddaughter, facing the rear. The article is not fully correct as there were 6 or 7 carriages and 3 of the rear carriages de-railed when we went round the bend before the bridge but two of them crashed sideways onto the pavement. A family of 3 were thrown out of their carriage and their toddler hit her head on the pavement but I am glad to hear that she is ok. A lady who was 8 months pregnant with her toddler were lucky to escape as they were in the carriage in front of the derailed ones. Everyone on the train was sitting properly in their seats and know one was leaning out or standing up. There was no guard at the rear of the train.
This seems to point to some other cause and as the train had completed three laps previously maybe there was a mechanical failure. No doubt there will be an investigation but will we get to see the conclusions I wonder? One of which must surely be the requirement for a guard, mandatory in our club when passenger hauling.
Cheers
Jim S
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Post by digger on Mar 27, 2015 21:05:04 GMT
I wonder who was riding on the derailed car? teenagers/children messing around? That is the most likely scenerio, and in these days of claim culture, it could prove expensive, this occured on a ground level track, I can understand a car derailing, but to turn over? Digger |
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steam4ian
Elder Statesman
One good turn deserves another
Posts: 2,069
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Post by steam4ian on Mar 28, 2015 0:28:29 GMT
The eye witness account seems credible and concise.
At SASMEE we have had incidents with people on the train taking photos. I witnessed on where a bloke turned around to get a photo of his girl. The train derailed and engine close to turned over before I could get the driver's attention. The only injury was the driver's ankle got sprained and he, an older driver has lost confidence.
Taking photos when on trains is now banned.
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Post by steamcoal on Mar 28, 2015 0:29:12 GMT
What would the guard have been able to do in this instance anyway?
It appears the passengers were not larking around and the gauge was 10" or more which would offer reasonable stability under normal circumstances.
Thats why I will not do party passenger hauling and seldom will pull a passenger trolley. I would prefer a rake of heavy wagons.
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steam4ian
Elder Statesman
One good turn deserves another
Posts: 2,069
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Post by steam4ian on Mar 28, 2015 2:22:25 GMT
Pulling passengers and running to schedule is part of the fun. Pulling a few trucks is boring.
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Post by alanstepney on Mar 28, 2015 7:07:35 GMT
The site is only about a mile from me, so I will see if I can get any "local" information.
As for hauling passengers, I'm with steamcoal on this one. I used to do passenger haulng, but these days, prefer not to.
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
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Post by Tony K on Mar 28, 2015 9:04:22 GMT
What would the guard have been able to do in this instance anyway? He/she would have seen what ACTUALLY happened and, if doing his/her job properly, give an accurate account. This would give a good start on fixing the problem. Otherwise, you can only rely on the public - and, experience says, that can be wildly inaccurate. Although passengers said everyone was behaving - they always do. A guard could have made sure they were. I'm with steam4ian. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 9:26:13 GMT
In my club a guard is mandatory when using more than 1 carriage.....
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,333
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Post by jackrae on Mar 28, 2015 9:27:03 GMT
Ms Jodan's statement is interesting in that she states two relevant "facts" which themselves must not be considered conclusive.
a) no-one was larking about at the moment of derailment
b) the derailment occurred on a curve.
Having been involved as the driver of a passenger derailment (7.25") and subsequent investigation, I am aware that one has to exercise caution in the interpretation of witness statements and what seems to be obvious conclusions. Like the subject derailment, in my particular case, no-one was larking about and the derailment also occurred on a curve.
From examination of the track and corresponding traces of paint from wheels, I established that the actual derailment occurred many yards prior to the toppling, at the exit of a turntable junction. One of the rigid bogies axles jumped the track at this junction and was actually riding the rail-head on its flanges. Only when we got to the curved portion of the track did the derailment become evident - as the wheel flanges were no longer capable of guidance, they fell off the track resulting in the carriages toppling.
I concluded that the primary cause of the derailment was the rigid bogie design which causes bogies to ride on only 3 wheels at uneven locations of track, and a slight misalignment of the turntable junction which permitted the non-contacting fourth wheel to ride up onto its flange.
I trust investigation of the Bournemouth incident digs sufficiently deep to determine true cause and does not satisfy itself with the "obvious".
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Post by ejparrott on Mar 28, 2015 10:07:28 GMT
Is it an MES or a private/council public facility?
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
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Post by uuu on Mar 28, 2015 11:13:33 GMT
I too have had a carriage topple when driving at ground level. Not a nice experience. Fortunately neither of my passengers was seriously hurt. In my case, I think the design of the carriage was poor, quite apart from why it derailed - it was almost bound to topple once off the track. A better design would have a secondary support, or more low-down width.
Wilf
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Post by keith6233 on Mar 30, 2015 8:44:25 GMT
The eye witness account seems credible and concise. At SASMEE we have had incidents with people on the train taking photos. I witnessed on where a bloke turned around to get a photo of his girl. The train derailed and engine close to turned over before I could get the driver's attention. The only injury was the driver's ankle got sprained and he, an older driver has lost confidence. Taking photos when on trains is now banned. How do you stop people taking photos when everybody as a mobile phone with a camera?. |
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Post by marshall5 on Mar 30, 2015 8:59:32 GMT
In my club a guard is mandatory when using more than 1 carriage..... ... and in ours the guard has a brake valve to apply the vacuum brake throughout the train. Ray. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 9:16:03 GMT
In my club a guard is mandatory when using more than 1 carriage..... ... and in ours the guard has a brake valve to apply the vacuum brake throughout the train. Ray. That's a good idea Ray... we don't have this for our raised track, well i guess not many loco's have vacuum brakes and some 3 1/2 not having any brakes at all including my own 4470, all braking done by the driving trolley but since all trolley's have a handbrake then I would assume that the guard can still apply the brakes on his carriage in an emergency. After an incident last year on the ground level track I believe that it's now mandatory that all loco's and carriages on this track have vacuum controlled brakes. Pete |
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