|
|
Post by whistler on Oct 5, 2015 19:16:55 GMT
Has any body used a liquid tank sealant for a loco tender. The tender is made of Brass and is screwed together. It is 5" gauge.
Any Help or suggestions would gratefully received.
|
|
|
|
Post by Donald G on Oct 5, 2015 20:43:01 GMT
I do not have the answer unfortunately, but as I am currently building the side tanks for my Std 2 tank, I have also been wondering about the sealing of them.
Recently saw an article, I cannot remember where, but this guy has glued his brass angles to the brass sides, he used something like 'Sticks like' He said it stuck really well and also seals the joints.
Has anyone heard of this, or any other ideas for a suitable adhesive.
Donald
|
|
|
|
Post by donashton on Oct 5, 2015 21:02:29 GMT
I have worked all my life with brass and have never come across a long term solution. Brass does not like anything to adhere to it - sealants, glues, even paint! Electroplating and soldering are fine, but glues are generally short lived.
Don.
|
|
Lisa
Statesman
Posts: 806 
|
Post by Lisa on Oct 6, 2015 4:47:01 GMT
The last tender I built was a fairly large 7¼" gauge tender (sit in style), it was all steel construction and sealed with bituminous paint as sold for sealing old water tanks. That worked quite well. Not sure yet how it'll be on a smaller loco/tank, but I intend to use it for my Blowfly's side tanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by ilvaporista on Oct 6, 2015 5:38:16 GMT
It might not help in this case but we tried several solutions on a steel 7 1/4" tender that leaked. One was polyester resin that is used for fibre glass the other was offcuts from a swimming pool liner. The polyester resin worked well and would have probably have carried on had the tank not been modified by welding. The liner is still going well and shows no signs of leaking.
|
|
|
|
Post by flyingfox on Oct 6, 2015 7:44:45 GMT
Greetings, I have had good success with Epoxy as used in wooden boat construction. It needs to be applied to clean brass, which will catalyse the reaction. It can be mixed with suitable filler powder to make a paste for filling larger gaps.
I build up the tank, leaving off the top, and paint the epoxy thickly on to the joint, until it starts to gel, when it can be left.
A boat chandlers is the best place to find it, the West system material is very good.
Excess material can be removed when the material is still "Green", not fully cured, and a thin layer will seal the tank top as it is screwed down.
I use it for 71/4 gauge ride on tenders as well as less stressed tanks etc.
I have found that Araldite is a bit too thick for this job, and of course, epoxy is a much stronger joint than the Polyester resin material mentioned above. I have sealed several tenders that have leaked when they have been soft soldered, and provide the solder is clean, it sticks well.
I usually scour the joint area with a rotary wire brush.
Hope this helps
regards
Brian
|
|
|
|
Post by Donald G on Oct 6, 2015 13:27:01 GMT
Thanks to you all for your comments and suggestions, I will look at the epoxy that you mentioned. There are going to be some rivets, but I am finding it very difficult to hold the 1/4" x 1/4" angle exactly in place in order to drill through from the outer skin.
Donald
|
|
denis M
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 300
|
Post by denis M on Oct 6, 2015 16:49:58 GMT
I have sealed steel tanks on my Baldwin loco with a solution used to repair file tanks on motorcycles called something like Petroseal or Petraseal, cannot remember for sure and then I painted it with a mastic paint for sealing water tanks.
Denis
|
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Oct 6, 2015 18:16:25 GMT
I thought that tenders were made from Brass and then Silver Soldered, so I don't understand why there are leaks. What am I missing? I'm going to have to make the Side Tanks for 1501, so presumably the same issues are to be found there?
|
|
|
|
Post by ejparrott on Oct 6, 2015 18:43:15 GMT
Often soft soldered, rarely silver soldered, but not the only method. I prefer steel tanks, they take paint better and don't look so awful if they get a scratch and the paint shows through. Distinct possibility mine will be stainless, and a friend of a friend has just done one.
|
|
|
|
Post by noggin on Oct 6, 2015 19:36:24 GMT
I have just sealed mine,I did not soft solder it as i have had a tender in the past that bucked from the heat and i did not want this one doing the same,so this one was riveted together then as stated above was sealed in petseal,a product for sealing petrol tanks and it worked a treat.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shawki Shlemon on Oct 7, 2015 8:20:42 GMT
I have built a few , I always use brass for tanks ( my choice ) , I rivet all joints , soft solder all joints for sealing and also make the assembly more rigid but the basic reason is sealing , I have also silver soldered or soft soldered fittings for water connections depending when I fit these fittings , if I fit them before assembly of the tank I silver solder them in , if I fit them after assembly then they will be soft soldered .
|
|
|
|
Post by digger on Oct 7, 2015 8:35:02 GMT
Close fitting joints, soft soldered with resin cored solder, no distortion if the heating is done sensibly, never had any leaks on either of my tenders GWR Manor, or Royal scot.
Digger
|
|
|
|
Post by cupalloys on Oct 7, 2015 9:48:00 GMT
Use the same technique for sealing water tanks. Lay a length of cored soft solder inside the tank. 1.0mm dia is sufficient.
Heat externally with a propane torch. The alloy will melt and flow to the outside leaving a neat joint inside and just a witness externally.
For brass tanks use 60/40 tin lead.
For stainless tanks use cored 2207. This flux will cope with the chromium oxide. The alloy offers a good colour match with the stainless.
The low melting point of both alloys, 187 and 205 degrees C respectively, means no distortion.
All materials are readily available.
Keith
|
|
smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
|
Post by smallbrother on Oct 8, 2015 8:38:13 GMT
I am shortly going to make a larger tank for my injector supply. I will be using as few mechanical fasteners as possible and sealing/glueing it with ordinary silicon sealer from a tube.
I have been challenged to try and pull tanks apart that were sealed/fastened this way and got nowhere.
Pete.
|
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,900
|
Post by jma1009 on Oct 8, 2015 11:00:24 GMT
i do exactly as Shawki does.
i do not like making tanks and tenders but dont mind soldering them up. i have a large amount of old fashioned sticks of plumbers solder.
one point that might be of use is that if you buy brass angle from say B&Q it has a protective layer of something to stop it discolouring, and whatever this layer is it must be scraped off first before soldering as it is resistent to heat and to ordinary flux and even Bakers Fluid.
drilling platework and angle and deburring it and tapping it is one of my least favourite jobs.
cheers,
julian
|
|
|
|
Post by andyhigham on Oct 8, 2015 11:35:12 GMT
I am shortly going to make a larger tank for my injector supply. I will be using as few mechanical fasteners as possible and sealing/glueing it with ordinary silicon sealer from a tube. I have been challenged to try and pull tanks apart that were sealed/fastened this way and got nowhere. Pete. My fish tank is glued together with silicone sealant, no frame, no angles, just the pieces of glass glued to each other. It has shown no sign of leakage in over 10 years and is holding about 72Kg of water back |
|
|
|
Post by mattscrutton on Oct 9, 2015 21:44:00 GMT
My Midges tender leaked hopelessly after two years in store (40 year old sealer dried and fell off). I cleaned it up and coated the inside with fuel tank sealer. Two coats and it was good as new.
|
|
|
|
Post by mattscrutton on Oct 9, 2015 21:46:54 GMT
|
|
