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Post by manofkent on Dec 1, 2016 15:46:50 GMT
Hello. I am just rebuilding a driving trolley in 5" gauge. it has two axles, and disc brakes running in the centre of each axle. the last thing to do before reassembly is to put the brake shoes on. Can anyone help me please with two questions: 1. What material should I use for the brake shoes. The discs are mild steel. 2. How are the shoes secured to the brake arms? Is it possible to glue them?
thanks in advance for your help.
john
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Post by flyingfox on Dec 1, 2016 16:57:08 GMT
Hi John, I have found that the most successful brake shoes to use was a set of bicycle brake blocks. they are cheap, easy to fit, and work well. regards Brian
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Post by andyhigham on Dec 1, 2016 17:53:43 GMT
At Ribble valley live steamers we use cycle disc brake calipers
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Post by manofkent on Dec 1, 2016 19:03:01 GMT
Thanks Brian and Andy. Brilliant suggestions. Off to Halfords tomorrow.
John
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Post by GWR 101 on Dec 2, 2016 14:48:35 GMT
Hi John, not sure if it's any help I used ordinary cycle calipers but had to make some packing pieces because the disc is a lot thinner than a cycle wheel, obviously cycle disc brake calipers would be more suitable and avoid this.
My drivers truck is intended to be dual purpose, that is for 5" elevated track and 7 1/4" ground level. Below it has the wheel set for the 5", for ground level there will be an additional two axle sets complete with discs and bearings which just slot into the horns. The flame cut blanks for the 7 1/4" version wheels (160mm od x 25mm thk) can be seem on the right. Bottom left is the electric linear actuator that is used to apply the brakes on both the front and rear axles.
Hope this helps, regards Paul
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Post by manofkent on Dec 2, 2016 17:18:28 GMT
Cor Blimey Paul. That's one posh driving truck. I like the electric actuator, does that mean no brakes if your battery is flat? I fitted a couple of bike disc pads from Halfords this morning - 3 securing pins. It was all nice and straightforward. This afternoon - new balls in the safety valves which had been weeping a little when in steam. All in a day's work I suppose. Blooming cold though!
John
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Post by GWR 101 on Dec 2, 2016 19:29:49 GMT
Yes John, however I am intending to fit a manual "emergency brake" (and before any one asks it's not sticking my foot out or putting anything in the spokes) . I shall endeavour to keep the battery fully charged, and as it's rated at 7 amph it should be ok for a good few hours running.
Glad to see you sorted your brake pads, I think in time I may splash a bit of cash and upgrade to proper disc calipers. Regards Paul
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,333
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Post by jackrae on Dec 2, 2016 21:44:51 GMT
And the next question is a request for the actuator information maker, model number etc
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chrisb
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 345
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Post by chrisb on Dec 2, 2016 23:30:10 GMT
They are generic linear actutors, we use a similar model for our club's point motors. Our supplier was Firgelli Automation www.firgelliauto.co.uk
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Post by GWR 101 on Dec 2, 2016 23:45:30 GMT
Hi Jackrae, I got mine off e.bay (www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-DC-Linear-Actuator-Motor-750N-165LBS-50-100-200-400mm-Electric-Door-Opener-/121992634602?var=&hash=item1c6753e0ea:m:me-C2lz7HbFy6Pj4_FyDglg), however I am sure there must be other suppliers.
Apologies to John for hi-jacking his thread, I can't claim that I was the initial person to come up with this idea as my club was discussing it over lunch as a means of reducing the weight of some carriages we are proposing to make. These are intended for use by the smaller ground level loco's, for public hauling and at present have vacuum operated systems with the associated compressors etc.
I saw it as a solution to a problem I had because of the design of my drivers truck it enabled the link between the hand brake lever and the mechanism to be an electric cable with appropriate plug and socket. You will see from the photo below that there is a spring incorporated in the system to give some flexibility. The control lever will be a switch of the on-off-on type spring loaded to the off position. The idea is to undertake some trials and see how it performs.
Hope this helps, regards Paul
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Post by runner42 on Dec 3, 2016 5:19:38 GMT
Hi Paul,
I hope John doesn't mind further highjacking his thread but your pictures of your trolley has stimulated some interest in me and possibly many others. There is a paucity of information on constructing trolleys on this forum and you seem to be in the driver's seat on how to construct them. Firstly, your Juliet is 3 1/2" gauge, do you intend using the trolley with this locomotive, is it more appropriate to have a 5" gauge trolley behind a 3 1/2" locomotive assuming the track is a 3 rail system for both gauges? Apart from the safety factors of having brakes what other additions have you included, the plastic container you show is I assume for the locomotives benefit and not a beer reservoir being sucked up by tube by the driver on hot days? Please give us a data dump because I am starting shortly to build a trolley.
Brian
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Post by manofkent on Dec 3, 2016 8:05:09 GMT
Please - no apology needed for "hijacking" my thread. This is all very interesting. Brian has inspired me to consider a beer supply - though the refrigeration could be tricky. I guess the boiler will bubble with pleasure if you got the beer and water supplies mixed up!
The electric actuator is interesting - with my 3.1/2 gauge Bantam Cock I still would like a better way of getting water in the boiler - and wondered if the actuator or similar could drive a small bore pump.
John
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Post by steamcoal on Dec 3, 2016 8:42:12 GMT
Another option I had thought about is using a small FESTO type pneumatic cylinder at both ends of the circuit and filling the system with oil rather than air (which compresses).
The pressure tubing can be high pressure plastic and with push in connectors. Has this ever been done. Festo/SMC or other make very good cylinders in a multitude of sizes.
Just wondering.
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Post by doubletop on Dec 3, 2016 9:16:18 GMT
I see Pauls driving truck has a large water tank. Other "add on's" in use down here are high pressure water pumps connected to the boiler via a dedicated clack. Push buttons have now been augmented with a timer to give a burst of water into the boiler without having to spend time with your finger holding the button down. 12V tyre pumps used in reverse as vacuum pumps for the train brakes are now being replaced by vacuum pumps from Alibaba. Although the tyre pumps work they are noisy. Of course, bike speedos are just about mandatory with speed limits being set at tracks. As the wheel sensor is in place on the wagon I'm working on a self-contained draw bar with strain gauges so load, time, distance can provide input to an on board dynamometer feeding data to a mobile phone. It must be added that none of this stuff resulsts removes intectors or ejectors from locos. They are there as backup systems, particullary on crowded public running days when, on occassion, one may have to hit the panic button. I don't think I've heard of an alternator being fitted to the loco to recharge the batteries needed to drive this lot. But then there again solar panels may be able to do the job....... Pete
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Post by GWR 101 on Dec 3, 2016 10:38:58 GMT
Brian, John, Pete. Yes my loco is 3 1/2" but the truck is 5" as our elevated club track is triple gauge including 2 1/2". The front end has staggered drawbar connection points offset for height and centre distance whereas the rear has two points both central but at different heights. The water tank is 5 litre capacity and has the outlet at the rear this is to enable the highest part (filler cap) to be forward of the drivers seat enabling the overhaul height to be reduced. Because I have modified the tanks on my Juliet water capacity is restricted so there will be two feeds from the truck one to the injector and one to the side tanks. I now have a 7 1/4" Bridget and am in the process of making the wheel sets for this adaption, hence the large flame cut blanks so that this version will sit higher and enable both track clearance and a better feed to the injector and tank filling. I must express my thanks to Jim (Boadecia on this forum) for his enormous help in supplying some drawings and encouragement. Regards Paul
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Post by runner42 on Dec 3, 2016 23:40:40 GMT
Thanks for the considerations for additional facilities to be incorporated. I suppose a fundamental consideration is the size (length) of the trolley and this is influenced by the capability of the locomotive. Do you make the trolley to accommodate just the driver or have it longer to carry passengers. This then begs the question what size and numbers of wheels are required? Where passenger carrying capability is included such things as running boards is an important consideration. Is there any safety standards for the construction of trolleys? Is there any useful URLs that cover the construction of trolleys available?
Brian
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Post by GWR 101 on Dec 4, 2016 10:13:26 GMT
Hi Brian, as mentioned Jim supplied me with a lot of info, much of which came from an article in AME early in 2000. My drivers trolley is loosely based on this and is of the two axle variety so it's limited in length for just the driver and consumables. Correspondingly it's braking system is intended to only provide for the loco and driver.
The club of which I am a member has numerous carriages for passenger use and details of their construction and braking systems are available on the club web site together with details of the braking system(s). Details of how to connect and operate these are also given, this enables users to operate these safely and if they wish incorporate the appropriate controls in their own equipment. When I have finished the initial construction of mine and tested it I will endeavour to incorporate suitable parts to be able to utilise the club carriages. The club like others has strict rules regarding passenger hauling which include driver training and licencing and also the use of guards on self contained guard trucks.
I am sure other forum members have much more information and experience than I do and will possibly add to this. Regards Paul
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Post by steamer5 on Mar 14, 2017 7:28:40 GMT
Hi Guys, New to this forum, & trying to catch-up on the postings......no small feet!
I found this one which prompted a reply & request. I'm building 2 trollies, I have one operational & making mods as ideas come up! The bases for them is the design by Dave Hudson, not his driving (4 wheel)one but his 8 wheel version. I modified the design so that it can be used on a raised track, 5", or ground level for 5 & 7 1/4". I had a fun, well the guys watching thought it was, experience on a ground track on 5" (the track was both 5 & 7 1/4) trolley & vowed right then that if possible 71/4 on ground level if at all possible! i have the axels & wheels setup so that the wheels can be slid in & out to the gauge required, moving the spacers as required all without requiring major disassembly....so far it has worked well.
ok now for the request...I'am looking for a vacuum brake valve as this doesn't have to be prototypical, one along the lines of the vacuum only one from PNP is what I'm looking for, dose anybody have a design they would be willing to share please? The trolley design is setup for hand or vacuum brake application, & short of shelling out a pile of money haven't found one, especially as I require two!
Cheers Kerrin
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Post by GWR 101 on Mar 14, 2017 19:40:36 GMT
Hi Kerrin and welcome, sorry can't help with the vacuum system as I have gone hand or electric actuator. Your adjustable wheel sets is most interesting solution any chance of sharing a photo or sketch ( I fully understand if you wish to keep the design under wraps). Regards Paul.
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itchyballs
Active Member
trying to figure out why
Posts: 29
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Post by itchyballs on Mar 14, 2017 20:19:30 GMT
Thanks for the considerations for additional facilities to be incorporated. I suppose a fundamental consideration is the size (length) of the trolley and this is influenced by the capability of the locomotive. Do you make the trolley to accommodate just the driver or have it longer to carry passengers. This then begs the question what size and numbers of wheels are required? Where passenger carrying capability is included such things as running boards is an important consideration. Is there any safety standards for the construction of trolleys? Is there any useful URLs that cover the construction of trolleys available?
Brian
Ross bishop did an article for a bum truck way back in ame to go with the blowfly. the aals standards use to have i think max axle loading so that should help with the number of wheels. whilst on this forum there may well be a paucity as you suggest, in general there is a superfluity, indeed a plethora of articles available on 4. 6 and 8 wheeled drivers trucks. I think the man who goes around to show with the Chinese takeaway van sells ready to run drivers trucks. Bring your cheque book, credit card our titles deeds to purchase))). I would contact ame and buy the back issues))). To have your own drivers truck certainly is a desideratum devoutly to be wished for))).
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