44767
Statesman
Posts: 529
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Post by 44767 on Mar 18, 2017 4:56:58 GMT
44767, are you planning on selling castings for the late Blk 5 spring hangers and horns that you've designed? Regards, Ramdango. I should be able to do that. There's a set underway at the moment so best we find out if it works first.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2017 7:16:37 GMT
Good morning everyone, I have come across photographs of a couple of "Black" 5's in green livery one with "British Rail" on the tender and one with the British Rail "Crest" on the tender, one is 5" gauge and the other I believe 3 1/2" gauge. Does anyone know if photographs exist of the full size locomotive (colour) or where I can find out which livery is correct or whether both liveries were used (both locos have the same number - 4763/44763)?
Thanks
Paul
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waggy
Statesman
Posts: 744
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Post by waggy on Mar 18, 2017 8:39:18 GMT
Morning Paul,
Sent you a PM.
Waggy.
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oldnorton
Statesman
5" gauge LMS enthusiast
Posts: 692
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Post by oldnorton on Mar 18, 2017 12:49:33 GMT
Good morning everyone, I have come across photographs of a couple of "Black" 5's in green livery one with "British Rail" on the tender and one with the British Rail "Crest" on the tender, one is 5" gauge and the other I believe 3 1/2" gauge. Does anyone know if photographs exist of the full size locomotive (colour) or where I can find out which livery is correct or whether both liveries were used (both locos have the same number - 4763/44763)? Thanks Paul link modeleng.proboards.com/search/results?captcha_id=captcha_search&where_thread_title=%22green+black%22&who_only_made_by=0&display_as=0&search=SearchYou are in this conversation from earlier Paul, if this helps. There was also a discussion in a Black 5 thread here about which BR engines were painted in which shades, but the search engine on the site will not find it for me at the moment. I remember contributing to it.
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44767
Statesman
Posts: 529
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Post by 44767 on May 11, 2017 9:56:32 GMT
I have now had back from the foundry the horn block and guides which I drew up earlier. These are done in silicon bronze but other options could be cast iron or steel. Machining allowance is added where necessary and the holes are dimpled from the front to save marking them out on the frames. These can be used to spot through. If, however, the holes are already in the frames, the frames them selves can be used to spot through into these. At first I had all the holes to scale but thought that it would be better if they were done to match Don Young's drawing. His centers are actually very close to scale- probably rounded up to the nearest 32nd. Also this version of the horn blocks and guides is for the plain bearing axleboxes Nos. 44738-44747. this I gleaned from the Swan Publication "LMS Locomotive Profiles No.7" Those later engines with roller bearings had slightly different ones. The spring hangers are still at the foundry to be cast in steel. This process takes much longer than that for bronze.
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,437
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Post by dscott on May 11, 2017 16:38:54 GMT
50 days into our stay in China I missed out on the Steam workshop Black Five being away from a computer, facebook and You Tube! Chinese food at every meal.Missing the workshop,but being close to a steam railway makes up for that just down river!!
What lovely castings and yes another interested body in what you are doing superbly!!
David and Lily. Yaan China.
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Neale
Part of the e-furniture
5" Black 5 just started
Posts: 278
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Post by Neale on Mar 5, 2018 15:17:07 GMT
Another DY Black 5 builder (well, shall be soon...) here. I have some of the materials to start building but I am actually starting with redrawing bits in Fusion 360 to get a better idea of how all the bits fit, and to double-check drawing dimensions. Starting with the tender, I've found the truth in DY's comments from his articles that "some builders have found that the tender wheels clash with the front drag beam box and you might need to cut some clearance". They actually overlap by a fair amount in the F360 model, and I wonder if others have found this problem, and what they did to get round it?
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oldnorton
Statesman
5" gauge LMS enthusiast
Posts: 692
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Post by oldnorton on Mar 6, 2018 9:05:04 GMT
Welcome to the forum neale.
I am also a DY Black 5 builder (allegedly) but progress is suffering from competing projects like motorcycles. I have found the DY drawings a delight to work from and quite reliable, but I have not got to the tender yet so I am sorry that I can offer no comment there.
I usually check the dimensions and fit of everything I am about to work on and often redraw it by hand with annotations. I also share your interest in Fusion but I have yet to make the move from Mac Turbocad (other projects again...)
Norm
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Neale
Part of the e-furniture
5" Black 5 just started
Posts: 278
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Post by Neale on Mar 6, 2018 9:19:42 GMT
I'm working with the Reeves drawings, and as you say they do look pretty good. I wanted to start with the tender as it looks likea significant piece of work in its own right and gives s chance to practise on slightly cheaper materials! However, given DY's comments in the text and on the drawing, I wanted to see the problem on-screen before I cut metal. I have a screenshot of the issue but it looks as if it's a bit fiddly to post images on this forum.
Given the investment of time and money in a project like this, I'm wondering if it's worth springing for the Blackgates "highly detailed" LMS tender drawings just to make sure I start off on the right foot without an offensive bodged bit of metal-carving right at the outset. Don't know if anyone's used those?
Btw, don't expect rapid progress reports from me - I'm a lot faster with F360 than I am cutting real metal...
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,437
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Post by dscott on Mar 6, 2018 12:05:34 GMT
I got 2 pairs of frames from an X LMS Fireman who had always dreamed of building one. Then got too old to carry on. Closest I can get to authenticity with the second pair hinting towards an 8F. Now there is a set of drawings that would be usefull!
Reeves did a 20% the other week and I could not resist some driving wheels and tender ones. The bogie ones are cheaper from Blackgates as are the rest!
David and Lily.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2018 12:48:19 GMT
I'm working with the Reeves drawings, and as you say they do look pretty good. I wanted to start with the tender as it looks likea significant piece of work in its own right and gives s chance to practise on slightly cheaper materials! However, given DY's comments in the text and on the drawing, I wanted to see the problem on-screen before I cut metal. I have a screenshot of the issue but it looks as if it's a bit fiddly to post images on this forum. Given the investment of time and money in a project like this, I'm wondering if it's worth springing for the Blackgates "highly detailed" LMS tender drawings just to make sure I start off on the right foot without an offensive bodged bit of metal-carving right at the outset. Don't know if anyone's used those? Btw, don't expect rapid progress reports from me - I'm a lot faster with F360 than I am cutting real metal... Personally I'd stick with Don's drawings, as you say he had pointed out the error which he usually does meaning you'll be in for few bad surprises during the build. IMHO he is the better if not best of the miniature designers out there, however no one is perfect but he's pretty close. Pete
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44767
Statesman
Posts: 529
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Post by 44767 on Mar 6, 2018 21:21:45 GMT
I do seem to remember having to cut some clearance in the front box stretcher to clear the wheels. Not really a big deal. Since you know it's a problem you'll be able to fabricate that stretcher with the clearance already included. There are very few errors on Don's drawings. Some are very minor like dimensioning e.g. 3/8" when it should be 3/16". The drawing was correct just the dimension was wrong. Most of these will be very obvious when you come to make the part. I find the part it fits to on the drawing and tie up the dimensions; it makes it much easier to make a part when you know what part fits to it.
I'll have a look at my tender this evening and photograph the underside. I have it apart now for a final fit out and paint.
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Neale
Part of the e-furniture
5" Black 5 just started
Posts: 278
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Post by Neale on Mar 7, 2018 21:45:07 GMT
I'll have a look at my tender this evening and photograph the underside. I have it apart now for a final fit out and paint. That would be great - thanks!
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Post by thumpersdad on Mar 8, 2018 21:41:41 GMT
There is an arrangement drawing for the 4000 gallon tender in LMS Locomotive Profiles No. 5.
On that drawing it looks like the 2⅛" dimension on the front box looks like 1' 10¾" at full size i.e. 2" at 5" gauge.
It looks to me that if the 2⅛" is reduced to 2" there is clearance to the front wheels when they are at their nominal height, but only just and probably not enough for practical purposes.
Eric
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44767
Statesman
Posts: 529
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Post by 44767 on Mar 9, 2018 2:16:14 GMT
I had a quick look at mine last night. the bottom plate of the box in the section between the inner and outer frame has been milled back ¼". This has allowed full movement of the wheels in all positions of the suspension. I didn't take a photo as it's an embarrassing mess just now! That was done about 30 years ago. I've come a long way since!
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Post by Cro on Mar 9, 2018 7:50:20 GMT
That was done about 30 years ago. I've come a long way since! Thought you were meant to be dedicating Fridays to this? I want to see her at Gilling one day
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44767
Statesman
Posts: 529
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Post by 44767 on Mar 9, 2018 9:33:25 GMT
That was done about 30 years ago. I've come a long way since! Thought you were meant to be dedicating Fridays to this? I want to see her at Gilling one day I am. You will.
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Post by Cro on Mar 9, 2018 10:02:03 GMT
Thought you were meant to be dedicating Fridays to this? I want to see her at Gilling one day I am. You will. Good stuff!!
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Neale
Part of the e-furniture
5" Black 5 just started
Posts: 278
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Post by Neale on Mar 10, 2018 7:49:03 GMT
There is an arrangement drawing for the 4000 gallon tender in LMS Locomotive Profiles No. 5. On that drawing it looks like the 2⅛" dimension on the front box looks like 1' 10¾" at full size i.e. 2" at 5" gauge. It looks to me that if the 2⅛" is reduced to 2" there is clearance to the front wheels when they are at their nominal height, but only just and probably not enough for practical purposes. Eric Many thanks - I have a copy of "Profiles" 6 which seemed to be the most appropriate, but maybe I need "5" as well! I shall look at modifying the drag box during manufacture but I suspect that I shall still end up with a bit of cut-and-try unless I can get my Fusion 360 drawing spot on, including axlebox travel, etc. At least, modelling with the PC like this means that you are forewarned of problem areas.
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oldnorton
Statesman
5" gauge LMS enthusiast
Posts: 692
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Post by oldnorton on Mar 11, 2018 17:36:44 GMT
Neale It is worth getting Profiles 5 as it has different drawings and all the engine basics and also get the Picture extra volumes to both 5 and 6 - they have a lot of nice photographic detail. Profiles 7 is the only one that is optional as it is focussed on the post war changes and caprottis.
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