Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Aug 25, 2018 8:24:34 GMT
Forgive me Father, but I have sinned.Whilst measuring the bore with the spring bore gauge- much more accurate than a vernier and I wanted a mid cylinder measurement - it sprung out into the (very) large exhaust port and proved impossible to remove without taking off the end flange. I exited, stage left, in a hurry! John .. . and I had to take off the blast pipe to get it out. The smaller one 1/2" to 3/4" did not satisfy the master so he used the 3/4" to 1 1/2" to measure the bore at 3/4". Got it out but useful as I found some traces of rust at the end of the piston valve bore. Just goes to show that after running one needs to fill up the wiggly bits with lots of oil and parafin, just never ends does it?? D
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Aug 27, 2018 20:56:07 GMT
Where were we?? I may repeat myself, put it down to senility. My objective was to replace the packing in the piston valve rods. Normally one finds a round sort of gland with holes in the circumference that one can tighten or loosen with a sharp point in the holes drilled in it or using a little spanner with a sort of hook. Not this one, the gland is held is with three hex heads two of which one might just access but the third is directly below the valve rod. No way up and no way down. Hesitates, scratches head and utters an expletive deleted! Thus the access is via boiler off so off it comes. Hundreds of bloody pipes and other bits which do not like to be undone, see pic of obstinate pipe. Then undo valve spindles, front covers off too. About to tackle the packing issue when a certain advisor comes by to tell me my piston rings are the wrong size. Now to be perfectly fair, he was invited, he had taught me how to make piston rings and he was able to lose a bore measurer up my exhaust. (That does sound a bit Harvey W…) but you get the idea. So, some special heelimite cast iron is on order. And I decided to fix the drain cock problem I had with this little darling. Am making some Peter Squire steam operated new drain cocks. All went well until I broke a drill just when it shouldn’t. So back to the wine bottle!!! Trying to decide. Alcoholic Haze (best claret), or Crimson Lake, your choice? D
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Post by doubletop on Aug 29, 2018 10:37:09 GMT
Roger I think you are correct. I will dispense with the angle piece as the boiler weighs a ton and gravity will do a better job. ......... Deja Vu moment for me. I had a similar problem. I heavied off the heads of the bolts and removed the bracket. Once the boiler was removed the tidy up could begin. The rusted in bolts can be smoothed off and left where they are. I made replacement 'L' bracket from brass secured with stainless cap heads. You've got plenty of room there for a longer 'L' bracket. With the boiler out holes for the new bracket can be drilled without any risk to it The next owner shouldn't have any problem removing the boiler and if anybody does upend the whole loco to do some work the boiler won't try to fall out. Pete
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Sept 2, 2018 10:12:14 GMT
I think I might understand what a bungee jumper feels before jumping! I am about to cut into my bobbins to convert them to their component parts so the rings can go on with out breaking as I stretch them over the outer bits. Oh s***, here goes, may never see you again!!! D
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Sept 2, 2018 21:14:04 GMT
My wife says I am on a mission and indeed I am. She is very good, brings me sandwiches and puts up being a workshop widow. But I think we have light at the end of the tunnel unless it is a bloody great diesel! Now for some photos. You remember the one nuisance little little screw that prevented me renewing the packing . . . IMG_0759 by David Goyder, on Flickr There it is lurking under the valve rod and under a plate that seemed to support the valve rods. Yes indeed! IMG_0775 by David Goyder, on Flickr After a lot of mucking around, undoing the support screws and sliding it back and rotating the wheels I got the brass runners out of the grooves. And ye I can get them back in! The little oil boxes on top feed into the holes. The gland packing disk in on the running plate lower left. All that for one lousy little bolt. Next step, the drain cocks do not work, never have so was persuaded to put steam operated ones. See the SF newsletter from last spring. They are in. IMG_0798 by David Goyder, on Flickr There is little space between the cylinders and the bogie support plate so of course that had to come off and is back on. Before putting the packing however it seemed a good idea to check the valve rings that I had replaced lat year. I had in fact bodged it so I was determined to get the right this time. This is where 'Simplyloco' came in to measure the bores and to show me how to do it properly and you have had that story! But the task of getting new rings over the bobbins and into the grooves is horrible and even though we tried every trick in the book, they break. Here is a bobbin! IMG_0800 by David Goyder, on Flickr And by the way decided to measure up the valve dimensions to learn a bit more about this loco, so this is a pic of an outside admission valve. It took the Midland quite a long time to smarten up on that one. IMG_0801 by David Goyder, on Flickr Measureing up IMG_0806 by David Goyder, on Flickr BUT now we come to the good bit. We decided (he did really) that I should change the bobbin into one with separate sections all bolted together so we could put the rings on without breaking them. Simply make a new central bit and get rid of the one in the bobbin, so I proceeded. here is the result. IMG_0808 by David Goyder, on Flickr At the top are the four new central bits that hold the rings. Below that are the four ends. Below that is a bobbin with the left hand side nicely cut away and faced ready for the new section but on the right is where the end came off, both the bit needed and that area I was trying to get rid of. It have been glued on with a greyish paste of some sort. To the right is the other one in the same state. So how do I turn these up?? Well I cleaned them up and loctited the together and hopefully in the morning I may be able to get rid of the unwanted part and keep what I need. Anyway was able to get on with making some new rings but this time I will make eight and not a years supply! And Reeves charge close to ten quid each for these. I was breaking three for each one going on and did not get them from Reeves for sure. So lets see what happens tomorrow. All this for one little bolt on a packing gland, such is the joy of a steam engine, no wonder BR got rid of them!!! D
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Post by GWR 101 on Sept 2, 2018 21:42:54 GMT
David, my sincere apologies for my previous post on your thread, obviously my intention was to post it on "what happened today". I will move it, great work I enjoy reading your post and somehow managed to have a senior moment. sorry Paul.
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Sept 3, 2018 19:16:24 GMT
Paul, I thought I posted a do not worry message just to say nice to have someone with something different on board!! D
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Sept 3, 2018 19:23:08 GMT
Hi All, very short and sweet tonight! Piston valves in, one side of packers in, happy bunny here, let's hope it works tomorrow! IMG_0815 by David Goyder, on Flickr Any sane person will be sick and tired of seeing a red chassis! Had one small problem of course, one of my new bits was a thou too big and the ring would not go in, made a small adjustment and it worked. The comment was "this is precision engineering, you are not building an armoured car in the desert!!" Well we must learn to love our fellow man, even an engineering assistant!!! Air on tomorrow! D
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Post by simplyloco on Sept 3, 2018 20:23:57 GMT
Hi All, very short and sweet tonight! Piston valves in, one side of packers in, happy bunny here, let's hope it works! SNIP The comment was "this is precision engineering, you are not building an armoured car in the desert!!" Well we must learn to love our fellow man, even an engineering assistant!!! Air on tomorrow! D Of course it's going to work! Great job: at least someone listens to me these days... BTW your consultant doesn't mind being called your assistant (much): after all, that's what friends are for! John
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Sept 7, 2018 7:04:00 GMT
Almost there, today is do or die!! It is the bloody plumbing that is taking the time and I have run out of olives again!!! But will put on steam to day just to see if it holds it in!! D
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Sept 7, 2018 18:21:12 GMT
OK Time to confess!!! Today was a reality lesson, more steam came out of joints than the blower. But informative as ever. First, seldom an ill wind that does not blow some good. Had to take apart the oil steam circuit to shorten a bit and low and behold the branch to the steam drain cocks was blocked. As "SL" would say, too much solder. OK now to the next one, a nipple fell away, "SL, too little solder". Now a long pipe to the vacuum ejector, just blew off. Sodding steam locos!"!!! So the moral of the story is that to do it too fast may create the odd pertubation!
First, thanks "SL" for your support and guidance, second, taking (her who says sell the bloody thing) off to Georges for a good nosh up. Then to the Southern Fed Rally where I will hang my head in shame, no loco, but still alive!
Cheers all, off for a good piss up D
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Nov 9, 2018 17:50:08 GMT
And as she comes together after several distractions, he decides that the right hand injector valve and clack needs cleaning as it does not work very well. Held on with six 8BA studs and nuts nand they look rusty. So let it sit with a little WD40 and I try to ease the first nut. Off it comes with the stud so that means a new stud. In the end four of studs will need replacing so will do all six. But how do I get the "whats left" out? I have thought about getting some penetrating oil. Some people recommend heating them up a bit. I certainly do not want to have the drill the holes etc!! Untitled by David Goyder, on Flickr IMG_1063 by David Goyder, on Flickr Cheers David
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2018 19:21:30 GMT
Hi David
I've not used it myself but only heard good things of 'Alum'...it will disolve the steel components leaving any brass/copper/bronze untouched. Assuming the flange plate that the studs are fitted into is copper/brass or bronze, Alum would be the way to go. You'd need to stand the loco vertical on it's front to do this, if me, I'd make a wall using plasticine (or such) around the flange with high enough walls allowing you to make a bath of Alum around the studs. Perhaps others who have used Alum will add to this?
Pete
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Nov 9, 2018 20:30:26 GMT
Pete You have a joined up mind!!! I have some alum. So a little scraping may reveal that the base is bronze and with plasticine or silly putty etc would bubble away. And as you say, stand the thing on its front buffers! Brilliant, many thanks! I might practice with a little scrap. David
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rrmrd66
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 339
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Post by rrmrd66 on Nov 10, 2018 10:14:54 GMT
Hello David Alum certainly works. Read my page 6 of the attached ( somewhere near the bottom): modeleng.proboards.com/thread/11844/hunslet-5-inch-gauge-build?page=6However the solution needs to be a "saturated solution" i.e. the point at which no more alum crystals will dissolve in your "stock" solution. The reaction against the ferrous studs will be speeded up if the the saturated solution is just below boiling. The Plasticine dam will be interesting. Agree that you should make atrial piece fist. The hot alum may react with the Plasticine?? Remember that the alum will attack anything ferrous. good luck. regards Malcolm PS can recommend my supplier of alum,see my thread. Apparently there is "alum" and there is "alum"
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Nov 10, 2018 18:14:12 GMT
Thanks Malcolm. I had some from some previous advice, probably yours. Loco on its nose, area exposed, Simplyloco guiding me through this part of the process. So off to get some plasticine tomorrow am and pour it on. Might dissolve the whole loco or just the studs!!!! Intend to dissolve myself with Cotes du Rhone this evening. Cheers David
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Post by steamer5 on Nov 11, 2018 6:47:17 GMT
Hi Dave, Be watching how you get on! Previous exponents have had great results! Wish I had know about it when I needed to remove what was left of the studs in the back head regulator bush...... all 8 of them! Setup an x y vise vertically then using a Dremel with a flex hand piece in the vice a nice thick drilling bush using a new drill all removed with no damage to the bush! Tap run in removed what was left of the studs. New ones made in stainless so shouldn’t have a problem again!
Cheers Kerrin
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Post by David on Nov 11, 2018 7:16:08 GMT
The comment was "this is precision engineering, you are not building an armoured car in the desert!!" We do our best, but its only a steam engine on wheels! It's going to clank, clonk, hiss steam from weird places, get blocked up, wear out bushes, and who knows what else. I think the accuracy most of us can reasonably achieve (Roger excepted, obv) leave these things a little way short of 'precision engineering!' I have a little 5" gauge 0-4-0 and I feel like it's the Sydney Harbour Bridge... I just go from end-to-end with the maintenance and then start back the other way! And it makes a lot of odd noises while I'm working my way towards them. The cylinders in the new one are conical. Not sure how or why but there it is. They were held in a 4-jaw chuck and a 3/4" boring bar was used, with spring passes. I am hoping the spring in the rings takes up the slack.
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Post by simplyloco on Nov 11, 2018 9:00:02 GMT
The comment was "this is precision engineering, you are not building an armoured car in the desert!!" I think the accuracy most of us can reasonably achieve (Roger excepted, obv) leave these things a little way short of 'precision engineering!' SNIP I quickly learnt that my precision engineering background did not serve me well when I started my Brit. Connecting rod bearing clearances and axle boxes come to mind straight away... However, that is no reason to be less than spot on where it matters! John
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Nov 11, 2018 9:06:26 GMT
Hi Dave, Be watching how you get on! Previous exponents have had great results! Wish I had know about it when I needed to remove what was left of the studs in the back head regulator bush...... all 8 of them! Setup an x y vise vertically then using a Dremel with a flex hand piece in the vice a nice thick drilling bush using a new drill all removed with no damage to the bush! Tap run in removed what was left of the studs. New ones made in stainless so shouldn’t have a problem again! Cheers Kerrin I like your idea of stainless studs. There won't be a strength issue will there? Cheers David
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