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Post by joanlluch on Apr 23, 2018 11:34:22 GMT
I have never seen this performed in practice, but some time ago I found this video and I think it can be of interest. I suppose the complete equipment must be quite expensive, but as per what is shown in the video, it looks that it's far easier than 'normal' tig welding (I may be wrong though). I wonder if this could have any use in model engineering.
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Post by Jim on Apr 23, 2018 13:01:26 GMT
Very interesting Joan, I could see lots of uses for something like that which seems to create strong bonds with very little heat.
Jim
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barlowworks
Statesman
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Post by barlowworks on Apr 23, 2018 13:15:22 GMT
Yes very interesting. It doesn't seem to generate much heat. It could be also used to tack together fabrications before silver soldering. Definitely worth looking into.
Mike
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 873
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Post by barlowworks on Apr 23, 2018 13:49:35 GMT
Just had a look on a well known on line auction site. A micro tig welder will set you back over £1000. Rather out of my price range. I do think that Rogers method of low amperage tacking with no filler has much to commend it and I may give it a go when I get to that stage.
Mike
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Post by 92220 on Apr 23, 2018 16:17:37 GMT
Wow!!! That is Brill. And he did that while holding it in his hand!! I can definitely see a use in model engineering, but it is a bit expensive for most model engineers. The lack of transferred heat is it's biggest advantage, for welding thin steel sheet parts.
Bob.
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Post by doubletop on Apr 24, 2018 6:56:08 GMT
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Post by joanlluch on Apr 24, 2018 7:52:45 GMT
Hi Pete, I think the links you posted are just small normal tig welding devices, but I doubt they have the micro tig welding features of the opening video. Based on what I found and my understanding, it looks to me that there are (at least) two leading companies offering this technology. - Sunstone in the US. They call it "pulse-arc welding": sunstonewelders.com- SST microwelding in France. They call it "plasma arc spot welding": www.sstmicrowelding.com/enIt seems to me that the French ones have a more extended international Network. After my opening post, I eventually decided to contact them (just as a matter of information) and they gave me the contact data of their Catalan representative. I have talked with him by phone (he has a funny French accent), and he offered to visit me on Thursday to make a demo. I clearly told him that I had ZERO experience on tig welding, and that I was not a company, just a hobbyist, but he offered visiting me anyway. He also said that in principle there is no need to have previous tig experience, so we'll see. I will post what I learn. Joan
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Post by 92220 on Apr 24, 2018 7:54:23 GMT
Hi Pete.
If you look up Micro Tig Welders on Ebay, a lot come up and they are all made in China. They are also priced between £1200 and £1600. I searched google and found quite a lot of UK suppliers but none of them gave any indication of prices, except one site that listed Micro Tig Torches, but didn't say what else is required to work with them. They all said to contact them for a quote, which sounds expensive!
Bob
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Post by 92220 on Apr 24, 2018 8:02:02 GMT
Just had a thought...I found that UK company that lists micro tig torches. Maybe that is all that is needed to make a standard tig unit into a micro welder. Is it just the torch, or does micro welding also need a special electrica unit? If it is just the torch, and it works with a normal tig welding unit, then the cost may come down considerably.
Hi Joan. Any idea who made the micro tig welder used in the video?
Bob.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 8:22:09 GMT
If you read the comments on youtube there's a discussion as to whether this is a Tig welder or a Capacitive Discharge welder....The guy who says it's the latter gave a make and name, evidently he makes the CD units... here's what he said it was... www.lampert.info/en/products/jewellery-106/puk5-welding-technology-for-goldsmiths Knowing nothing of these things I'm not sure but it certainly seems to match.... Pete
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Post by joanlluch on Apr 24, 2018 8:53:44 GMT
Just had a thought...I found that UK company that lists micro tig torches. Maybe that is all that is needed to make a standard tig unit into a micro welder. Is it just the torch, or does micro welding also need a special electrica unit? If it is just the torch, and it works with a normal tig welding unit, then the cost may come down considerably. Hi Joan. Any idea who made the micro tig welder used in the video? Bob. Hi Bob, It's difficult to tell. The one in the video I think it's either the French one or some other one. My understanding is that a standard tig unit can not be easily converted into a micro tig welder because the latter appear to quickly and automatically retract the welding tip from the part to create and stop immediately an electric arc. I suppose this would need some electronics to make it happen. Joan
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Post by joanlluch on Apr 24, 2018 9:03:40 GMT
If you read the comments on youtube there's a discussion as to whether this is a Tig welder or a Capacitive Discharge welder....The guy who says it's the latter gave a make and name, evidently he makes the CD units... here's what he said it was... www.lampert.info/en/products/jewellery-106/puk5-welding-technology-for-goldsmiths Knowing nothing of these things I'm not sure but it certainly seems to match.... Pete Hi Pete, I believe that a "capacitive discharge welder" uses an electric current to glue together two metal parts through the fusion of their surfaces in intimate contact. It does not create an electric arc to melt the surface as the Tig does. I also believe that some of these devices combine the two possibilities in an unique apparatus, so possibly this is just a source of confusion. Again, this is all based on what I have found in google over the last few hours or days, so don't take this too literally. Joan
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 9:05:24 GMT
the guy gives more info in answers to other questions... quote;
Primotech phaser mx-1 welder
Voltage...40V Amperage...variable from 5A to 600A @ 40 V. Pulse...variable to 30ms. via self retracting tungsten electrode.
penetration of 0.5 mm with a spot diameter of .3mm - to .6 mm.
can't find details on the torch used
cheers
Pete
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Post by doubletop on Apr 24, 2018 9:33:59 GMT
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Post by 92220 on Apr 24, 2018 16:23:18 GMT
Nothing seems to be said about eye protection. What sort of protection is recommended? Anyone seen any info?
Bob.
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Post by Jim Scott on Apr 24, 2018 20:16:46 GMT
Nothing seems to be said about eye protection. What sort of protection is recommended? Anyone seen any info? Bob. Hi Bob I think the guy in the original video said he just closed his eyes as he pressed the button...! It's a very short duration pulse at relatively low power, I would be surprised if it were deemed necessary to wear anything more than safety glasses. Continuous operation of even micro TIG welding equipment below about 5A is difficult because the arc becomes unstable and tends to wander. Use of very low welding current is the realm of micro-plasma which can operate down to less than 100mA. This isn't a new process but generally regarded as expensive. Way back in the early 1970's I did some R&D work for a well known company which had two crossed swords as its emblem, - this was to join razor blade feedstock reels 'on the hoof' to allow continuous operation of their production process. I don't remember it being a great success though as it was difficult to keep up with the very high feed rate used at that time. However the actual welding part was very satisfactory. Incidentally, because the plasma arc is largely shielded by the ceramic cup and of very low current, it was quite reasonable (at the time) not to use any eye protection at all. Even when in continuous use my ordinary spectacles were deemed to be adequate as I recall. The other thing of note is that the plasma welding can be done in a 'non-transferred' mode, in effect the workpiece need not be part of the circuit as the plasma is maintained at the torch tip. Could be likened to a very fine but extremely hot welding torch..! Jim S
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Post by joanlluch on Apr 26, 2018 13:20:48 GMT
I got the visit of the SST Microwelding representative. www.sstmicrowelding.com/en . He was not the sales rep I talked with a couple of days ago, but a guy that came with a mini-ban vehicle with everything in there to show their products. He also carried a 'normal' tig welder from a different represented brand, but the demo focus was on the "Lase One" product from SST. So after explaining the basic principles and operation of the device, he asked whether I wanted him to weld something for me. We made this just for testing purposes: Micro soldadures by joan lluch, on Flickr Micro soldadures by joan lluch, on Flickr The first picture is 0.5 mm stainless steel sheet. The second one is 3 mm sheet on 4 mm sheet. He eventually allowed me to try myself and I managed to do this on the other side of the same 0.5 mm sheet. Micro soldadures by joan lluch, on Flickr Not near as good as the weld performed by the operator, but not that bad for someone with zero practice, and my first time ever holding the torch. I could see myself quickly improving on that with a matter of a couple of hours. It's really that easy. These are my concussions: Pros: - Much easier than normal Tig welding. - More chances to correct welding errors or to improve the weld appearance or defects with a second pass at reduced power. - Virtually no limit on how small a weld can be made. Only limited by what you can actually see or hold steadily. - You see the weld under normal light while you are performing it, not through a UV filter glass. The binocular microscope turns momentarily dark by means of a shutter for just a few milliseconds, in sync with the arc discharges. In practice this is barely perceptible and you always see the weld under normal light. The subjective perception is similar to taking shots with an old reflex photo camera. You don't see the instant moment the shot is taken but you fully see the previous and posterior moments. - Very limited heating of the parts. No deformations due to heat. Cons: - Very expensive equipment. - Possibly not suitable in practice for structural welds on sheets thicker than 2 mm. You still need a normal tig welder for that. - Slower operation than normal tig welders. I found it overall a very useful demonstration and device. I would definitely consider buying it for my own needs if it wasn't for the price. Joan
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
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Post by barlowworks on Apr 26, 2018 16:04:49 GMT
I must admit I thought of these welders as a means of tacking fabrications together with a couple of spot welds prior to silver soldering. During the limited amount of silver soldering I have done I found the hardest thing to do was to hold everything together while the solder reached the correct heat without it all falling apart. If the cheap Chinese welder can hold everything accurately in place with a few spot welds I know what is going to be on my shopping list.
Mike
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,062
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Post by jem on Apr 26, 2018 16:41:43 GMT
Joan, tell us the price please,
best wishes
Jem
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Post by silverfox on Apr 26, 2018 17:22:18 GMT
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