Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Dec 11, 2018 10:16:14 GMT
[Snip] In his autobiography, the LMS draughtsman Eric Langridge speaks highly of designers with "contract shop" training. But I wonder whether the rather insular culture at Swindon meant that there was little interchange with the big contract companies. Malcolm Hi Malcolm I suspect that at the time we are talking of, it was the other way round. Churchward was leading the world with his valve gear and boiler development, and it was many years before these ideas were picked up on other railways. I can't speak for NBLC, but it would be surprising if they were any different (though perhaps NBLC paid special attention, because in later years, NBLC won at least one building contract when Swindon couldn't cope). Swindon's fabled insularity was more a feature of the Collett years; Churchward looked far and wide for good practices he could emulate, notably the USA and France. Gary
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Post by delaplume on Dec 11, 2018 12:25:06 GMT
I believe it was in 1906 that he read a paper to the Institute of Mechanical Engineers in which he outlined his ideas etc regarding the "Big Boiler"theory.......This might have been at the back of his mind when first drawing up the Bear's non-standard boiler . As Gary mentioned earlier it was the eventual need to replace the worn-out boiler, coupled with other events at or near the time that led The Bear to be withdrawn and re-built into castle No.111 Viscount Churchill. The model at Scunthorpe however did manage to get a replacement boiler and is thus still with us... .It's allowed to run on certain days of the year and a look at the Scunthorpe MES programme for next year should have those times highlighted.... Here's the Wiki on Churchward}------- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Jackson_Churchward
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gwr7800
Part of the e-furniture
Member of Portsmouth mes
Posts: 384
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Post by gwr7800 on Dec 11, 2018 17:36:26 GMT
Hello everyone, and thanks for looking in and making a contribution... Lisa}---- that photo is part of the write-up in the Scunthorpe MES link shown earlier on here....As mentioned it's at Normanby Park, North Lincolnshire which is just outside Scunthorpe and it's where the Scunthorpe MES are located .......That building still exists and it's their clubhouse and stores with an access track coming from the main circuit and into the building... The track that you see in the photo is no longer there....Just where the young Lady driver is situated is now a Calor Gas secure compound.....and where the bald chap is sitting is where I took a photo of Joyce........My scanner / printer has gone to "Cashmoores" ( well known loco scrap yard in the Midlands ) ... I'll post any scanned stuff later on.... We've been there twice now and a very warm greeting was experienced both times......Their main chap is Wilf and he--along with the club in general--- act as custodians on behalf of the local Council... If you all have a good read of their link you can get a lot more info than I want to type... ------ www.scunthorpesme.co.uk/ ------ I hope "Midland" and "Simplyloco" are reading this because the Scunthorpe's Great Bear was re-gauged and re-boilered at some time during it's life by someone in the Southampton Club.....Perhaps you or one of your Senior members might remember this and add some more info to this thread ??... I'd be very grateful and will also add the info into my main archive of this project.. I remember seeing the loco and it's original boiler in the entrance foyer to a miniature steam model makers in the South West but can't remeber just who it was....Any ideas out there ?? FLASH THOUGHT !!.........maybe Cheddar Models
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gwr7800
Part of the e-furniture
Member of Portsmouth mes
Posts: 384
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Post by gwr7800 on Dec 11, 2018 17:47:13 GMT
Hi Alan, glad your back! We might have had this conversation before so sorry if iam repeating myself! As a member of the Portsmouth model engineering society we had a member who I believe was also a member of the Southampton society Mr Ken Woodroofe ( no longer with us ) he had a Great Bear in 5 in gauge which again iam sure was regauged? It was some years ago now 25 ish? Ken let me drive the loco at the Portsmouth track,very nice as I remember!! Just remembered as typing this I think if memory serves me correctly that a Portsmouth member Frank Morley built the boiler for it? Again Frank is no longer with us, hope all this helps, once again nice to have you back!! Regards Chris
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gwr7800
Part of the e-furniture
Member of Portsmouth mes
Posts: 384
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Post by gwr7800 on Dec 11, 2018 17:48:28 GMT
Another flash of memory! Think Ken had something to do with cheddar models? MD?
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Post by noggin on Dec 11, 2018 19:47:54 GMT
When i picked my new boiler from Cheddar models a long time ago , They had a Great bear just inside the hall way, On a stand minus the tender.
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Post by delaplume on Dec 11, 2018 21:10:27 GMT
When i picked my new boiler from Cheddar models a long time ago , They had a Great bear just inside the hall way, On a stand minus the tender. Many thanks Noggin--- that was it !!........... If I remember correctly they were in a small, modern industrial unit with open plan entrance and reception area -- flowers etc... The tender was upstairs in the loft along with some of their assembled units........The original boiler was up there as well....I took plenty of photos but in those days it was an old SLR which didn't have a particularly good depth of field......As you say it was a while ago and that would have been at the very beginning of my deciding to build this current one..... Hi GWR7800---- Chris, many thanks for those 2 posts and there you go , a nice bit of cross referencing from Noggin so between the three of us we've "ticked a couple of boxes" I think ?? I'd heard on the "Grape Vine" about it being there and had made an appointment to view and photograph...and which for the life of me I can't locate them at the moment !!!..............Grrr !!
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Post by delaplume on Dec 11, 2018 21:23:33 GMT
Here's The Bear in photographic grey and "as first built" ............ Points to note}-- a) Loco bogie is braked...... b) Chimney has embellishment..I read somewhere that it was Brass rather than the traditional Copper, but can't find that piece just now......Anyone out there any ideas ?? c) Footsteps in front of cylinder....These were soon removed after it's first visit to Paddington where the step apparently damaged the platform edge upon arriving ... d) No top feed --- just the safety valves......Backhead clacks and feedwater heater tubes in the firebox later removed and top feed fitted. e) Large plaque on centre driver splasher.....later removed.. f) Pitch of rear driver to centre driver now matches the front to centre...ie}-- This wheelbase is shorter than the Star locos running at that time.. g) Note length of cab roof......It was steel outside and wood - lined inside......This was later shortened after a Fireman got his "Pricker " bar ( I assure you that's the correct terminology, m'lud !!) jammed in it !! h) The bare trailing wheel denoting the use of a Radial axlebox ....It was the close proximity of the white metal bearings to the ashpan / underside of the grate and the very hot working environment that led to the well-documented failures and hefty down-time whilst they were repaired..... The 56xx tank I viewed at Horsehay, Telford has the exact same set-up as do the 61xx Large Prairies etc... h) The tender equalising bars are shorter than the loco ones but otherwise identical...As far as I can ascertain there was only one Vac. cyl and that was fitted over on the R/H side... i) The use of the company garter crest between GREAT and WESTERN.....The livery changed a few times...more on that later..
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Post by suctionhose on Dec 11, 2018 22:56:06 GMT
brake shoes behind the drivers is unconventional?
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Post by delaplume on Dec 11, 2018 23:06:17 GMT
brake shoes behind the drivers is unconventional? Yes, indeed------- it's the only place you can get them in and even then it's a squeeze....Ideally you'd want the rotating wheel to drag them in a downwards direction when the brakes are applied......helps prevent the shoes from juddering / jumping when the pivot pins / holes start to wear.. or so I've been told...
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Post by delaplume on Dec 11, 2018 23:22:07 GMT
Hello everone}-- With regards to my model build programme}--- Since you good people on here have inspired me to pick up this project again I realised that my existing bench-top space is just not big enough to display the various items for photographing, SO I've decided to upgrade the old Motorcycle security garage in the front garden with a one piece bench to run the whole length of one side......one of those heavy duty kitchen tops I think will suffice...This will be for photographing--storing finished items and assembling the loco itself .... To give you an idea}---The boiler and smokebox is 3ft 6ins long whilst the tender soleplate is 2ft long... And now by way of a belated introduction here's a very young Alan in Summer 1994 at the now defunct Rugeley MES steaming Bays.........The loco is a 5" gauge GWR 633 class condensing tanks built at Woverhampton which I still have and is on it's second re-furbishment.. Here's the Wiki on them}------- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_633_Class[dark kn]
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Post by delaplume on Dec 14, 2018 5:16:34 GMT
Hello everyone,
A PLEA FOR HELP !!
As you might imagine photos of The Bear are fairly scarce so I'm asking you all if you would keep an eye open for anything at all and maybe reproduce it on here if that's possible / allowed.....
In particular any showing the Bear's 8-wheel tender attached to a different loco....I'm fairly sure I've seen one of it attached to a 4-4-0 County at some stage...
Many thanks..
Alan
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Post by nick952 on Dec 14, 2018 16:43:27 GMT
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Post by delaplume on Dec 15, 2018 0:34:54 GMT
Hi Nick,
Is that the Nick of Castle and Harley fame ??
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Post by delaplume on Dec 15, 2018 0:38:15 GMT
Many thanks Nick, Here's the R/H side of the tender which clearly shows the Vac. Cyl..........It looks like it's a 21 " [
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Post by andyhigham on Dec 15, 2018 13:20:02 GMT
Alan, I hope your model turns out to be more successful than the prototype. From what I read it was a complete lemon. Too long, too heavy, poor steamer, but Hey it looks spectacular!
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Post by nick952 on Dec 15, 2018 13:40:19 GMT
Hi Nick, Is that the Nick of Castle and Harley fame ?? Not so sure about the "fame", but yep I am who you think I am
Good to see you back on here.
Do you have the drawings that Peter did for the Castle Bogie brake gear? If not, I can scan and send you a copy, although it is incomplete, as Peter had only done the GA for this, with no detail drawings of the individual components.
Nick.
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Post by delaplume on Dec 16, 2018 1:10:25 GMT
Here's a Gauge 1 Great Bear at Colney Heath------------> --------->https://youtu.be/KPAtcKjv_N0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 10:20:11 GMT
Here's a Gauge 1 Great Bear at Colney Heath------------> --------->https://youtu.be/KPAtcKjv_N0 That's a great video Alan... the G1 area has a lot of additions since this was filmed... nice new clubhouse area for one, can't say if the track is the same or not as not run on it..something for my old age perhaps.. BTW the girder bridge is the closest point of the G1 to the larger scales steaming bay. The G1 group is pretty large these days, many more seen steaming than in the video, if in summer the place is packed. Pete
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Post by delaplume on Dec 16, 2018 18:17:22 GMT
Hi Nick, Is that the Nick of Castle and Harley fame ?? Not so sure about the "fame", but yep I am who you think I am
Good to see you back on here.
Do you have the drawings that Peter did for the Castle Bogie brake gear? If not, I can scan and send you a copy, although it is incomplete, as Peter had only done the GA for this, with no detail drawings of the individual components.
Nick.
Hi Nick, Yes thanks----I have a set of Peter's Bogie brake gear drawings and just as you say, mine are incomplete also..!! STOP PRESS !!........ I now have to hand a complete set of fully machined tender bogie wheels ( 8 off ) so this Christmas Hols should see 4 axles machined and 4 wheel sets assembled and painted........ To keep my M/E production going in the Winter months I have developed a form of "Stove Enameling".....I pre-warm the spray tin in a basin of HOT water......The item for painting is scrubbed clean with a mild detergent, dried-off with a clean cloth then final drying by suspending over the gas ring of the cooker hob........and allowed to get hot to the touch. When ready the spray tin is quickly dried in a tea towel, then the two are taken out into the nearby spraying booth and the item given it's first coat..... Next it hangs in the airing cupboard where the boiler insulation can be temp. removed for some really useful overnight heat..... Repeat after 24hrs... Here's a Polly 6 cab that I did last year along with all the other "tinwork"}----------> ----------->
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