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Post by delaplume on Feb 8, 2019 10:08:30 GMT
Hello Pete,
The GWR actually produced 2 off, 8-wheeled tenders}-------- one for The Bear in 1908 ( with the twin bogies ) which lasted to 1940 by the way !!..... and another, experimental type but of more conventional design introduced by Charles Collet in 1931, which was withdrawn in 1963.......
By overlapping the dates we can see that both types were operational simultaneously from 1931 through to 1940 = 9 years..
Have a look at this}------http://www.railuk.info/history/gethistory.php?id=82
As far as I'm aware, apart from Greseley's pacifics and the L&SWR nobody else had an 8-wheeled tender in those times....
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Post by delaplume on Feb 8, 2019 10:19:28 GMT
....I'm not sure just what the "Approx. mileage" refers to.... Would that be miles to the terminus? So as showing on the trackside posts/signs. Wilf Hello wilf, Yes, possibly....Mileposts in general tended to give the distance to the nearest Headquarters or Centre of operation.......I think the GWR posts gave the distance from the GWR Company H/Q...ie}---Paddington. This makes interesting reading}---------- www.railsigns.uk/sect28page1/sect28page1.html ------ al2o3 name
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Post by delaplume on Feb 8, 2019 19:49:09 GMT
Looking at that photo of your lathe above it seems you're missing a piece of rack on the removable part of the bed in the gap. Mine is missing that same piece and it means I can't get very close to the spindle with the carriage, eg when using collets. This is a very common type of lathe - are they all missing the rack there? Here is the Grizzly lathe, an American equivalent of my Craftsman lathe-------- you can see that the gap piece has a rack section on it and the carriage wheel is on the L/H side of the Apron-------------
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don9f
Statesman
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Post by don9f on Feb 8, 2019 21:09:32 GMT
Perhaps the mileages shown are “approx.” as someone has approximated them from the Railway’s standard of measuring distances along the tracks in miles and chains....I personally don’t know any where else where these units of measurement are still used today.
80 chains to a mile, 1 chain = 22 yards!
Cheers Don
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Post by delaplume on Feb 14, 2019 21:12:23 GMT
Perhaps the mileages shown are “approx.” as someone has approximated them from the Railway’s standard of measuring distances along the tracks in miles and chains....I personally don’t know any where else where these units of measurement are still used today. 80 chains to a mile, 1 chain = 22 yards! Cheers Don Horse racing ??
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barlowworks
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Post by barlowworks on Feb 15, 2019 9:05:01 GMT
Perhaps the mileages shown are “approx.” as someone has approximated them from the Railway’s standard of measuring distances along the tracks in miles and chains....I personally don’t know any where else where these units of measurement are still used today. 80 chains to a mile, 1 chain = 22 yards! Cheers Don Horse racing ?? Cricket, isn't that the length of a cricket wicket. 😉 Mike
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Post by jon38r80 on Feb 15, 2019 17:03:58 GMT
Its the length of a surveyors chain which you had to throw out (hopefully in a reasonably stright line in roughly the direction you wanted) and then measure offsets from it using the chain markers to give your your chainage along a line being surveyed. bloody heavy and not easy to throw. Not veryu accurate either as the d****n things stretch. measure the offset with a ranging pole, one of those red and white ones you see or a cloth tape which also would stretch!. fortunately they died outr as I started work. Much more reliable accurate ways invented to survey.
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Post by ettingtonliam on Feb 15, 2019 17:47:11 GMT
Yes, I only ever used the chains on the University's surveying course. By the time I started work on site in `1973, they were museum pieces, so I never used one again (luckily)
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Feb 15, 2019 18:04:36 GMT
Yes, I only ever used the chains on the University's surveying course. By the time I started work on site in `1973, they were museum pieces, so I never used one again (luckily) I helped a farmer friend some 30 years ago to measure a field. He was a man who could not read or write but knew numbers and could calculate like an actuary. We used his chain which was subdivided into rods, poles and perches. Every time we moved the chain he picked up a pebble and put it in his pocket so he knew the total length. After we finished measuring, and as a slight wind-up I asked him if he had an instruction manual. To my surprise he produced one. It included technical data such as if you wanted to apply a certain tonnage of manure to an acre you tipped up a standard cart every so many yards and at specified widths. At that time most people used measuring wheels with counters but with rough ground, a chain to my mind, would have been more accurate. Now you can go online and get accurate measurements off a map.
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Post by delaplume on Feb 20, 2019 12:20:44 GMT
Just bought this from a certain electronic auction site}---------
roughly 13" x 9" .........It depicts the Bear in later mechanical specs. but in the plain, unlined green...with "Great Western" on the tender.. With a bit of luck it might arrive before I go to set-up at the Manchester show this coming Friday...
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Post by delaplume on Feb 20, 2019 12:29:22 GMT
Its the length of a surveyors chain which you had to throw out (hopefully in a reasonably stright line in roughly the direction you wanted) and then measure offsets from it using the chain markers to give your your chainage along a line being surveyed. bloody heavy and not easy to throw. Not veryu accurate either as the d****n things stretch. measure the offset with a ranging pole, one of those red and white ones you see or a cloth tape which also would stretch!. fortunately they died outr as I started work. Much more reliable accurate ways invented to survey. Hi, would you give us a brief idea just how the theodolite and those oddly-marked poles work..........Railways have to be surveyed like anything else so a bit of professional insight would be ok on this thread....Thanks.
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Post by delaplume on Feb 20, 2019 16:30:59 GMT
Oh DOOM & GLOOM !!!!------- This afternoon I gave the 5" gauge Bear boiler a good old clean-up in preparation for displaying it at the Manchester show.....So, with that then nicely achieved I thought that the Hydrostatic Condensing coils could do with a bit of a clean up as well.........BUT it wasn't untill I finished the first one that a glaring error in manufacture of the pair became apparent to me....... Have a look at the attached photos and see if you can spot what it is ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 16:38:31 GMT
this is a complete guess, but should they be opposite spirals?
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Post by delaplume on Feb 21, 2019 0:15:12 GMT
too easy really....but in the enthusiasm of making them I completely missed it !! Oh well----- I'll have another go later on
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Post by jon38r80 on Feb 21, 2019 16:47:33 GMT
" Hi, would you give us a brief idea just how the theodolite and those oddly-marked poles work..........Railways have to be surveyed like anything else so a bit of professional insight would be ok on this thread....Thanks."
Sorry I cant really as surveying was something I did early in my career, went into programming and design for a while and then it was setting out not surveying. By that time it was all electronic theodolites and prism reflectors on pogo sticks which took all the thinking out of setting out!. There was another machine I used a couple of times called a telurometer which I used to set out major reference points over several kilometers away from known coordinated objects. A dark art and long forgotten. Some forty years ago now.
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jo479
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Post by jo479 on Feb 22, 2019 21:33:51 GMT
Very interested to see the picture of the Grizzly lathe, I've got an Alpine lathe (supplied by Graham Engineering, West Bromwich in 1982) which to all intents and purposes is the same as the Grizzly except no gap bed, could have done with it a few times though, american pattern handwheel on the left, I think the Warco 900 is the same as the Chester Craftsman, possibly better finished. the only snag with mine it only has a 2MT tailstock which for the size of the lathe a 3MT would have been better, the Headstock is the uncommon 4 1/2 MT, the manual says 5mt but it's not, the 30" between centres is very handy.
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Post by cplmickey on Feb 23, 2019 14:58:30 GMT
Hi, would you give us a brief idea just how the theodolite and those oddly-marked poles work..........Railways have to be surveyed like anything else so a bit of professional insight would be ok on this thread....Thanks. I'm not an expert and it's some years since I did this but I can probably give an idea of what's involved. It's one of those things that's easier to show than describe really. In simple terms the surveyors chain provided a datum line from which to measure the lie of the land. You can measure along it and of course you can also measure to the side at any point along it so the important thing to know is how far along the chain you are and whether you're on it or to one side. This way you can measure along the track bed, for example, or obtain the profile of the shoulders. The theodolite sits on the tripod which must not be moved once set up - using the cross hairs in the eye piece you then measure the distance up the staff for a given point, noting the location of the measurement along the chain and to the side. Note that as the land rises, so does the staff, so the distance up the staff decreases (zero being at the bottom). You now have a series of measurements of distances from the theodolite and vertical distance at that point which can be plotted to give profiles or cross sections. If doing a large area it is impossible to keep the tripod in one place so you would take measurements on a known fixed point, move the tripod and then take a measurement to that same known fixed point (known as a back-sight I think). The difference in measurement would then need to be added or subtracted from any subsequent measurements to allow the plots to relate to each other. There's more to it than this- it's quite an art really. A good surveyor would know where to take his measurements, where closely spaced measurements were needed and where fewer more widely spaced points would do the job. Clearly the more points you measure the more accurate the profile but the more work involved both in measuring and plotting. Lasers and gps now make the whole process much easier and I believe can be done by one man as the theodolite "follows" the target staff. Of course the L&B used drone surveying techniques recently so more recent technology makes the job even easier.
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Post by delaplume on Feb 23, 2019 18:53:09 GMT
Hi, would you give us a brief idea just how the theodolite and those oddly-marked poles work..........Railways have to be surveyed like anything else so a bit of professional insight would be ok on this thread....Thanks. I'm not an expert and it's some years since I did this but I can probably give an idea of what's involved. It's one of those things that's easier to show than describe really. In simple terms the surveyors chain provided a datum line from which to measure the lie of the land. You can measure along it and of course you can also measure to the side at any point along it so the important thing to know is how far along the chain you are and whether you're on it or to one side. This way you can measure along the track bed, for example, or obtain the profile of the shoulders. The theodolite sits on the tripod which must not be moved once set up - using the cross hairs in the eye piece you then measure the distance up the staff for a given point, noting the location of the measurement along the chain and to the side. Note that as the land rises, so does the staff, so the distance up the staff decreases (zero being at the bottom). You now have a series of measurements of distances from the theodolite and vertical distance at that point which can be plotted to give profiles or cross sections. If doing a large area it is impossible to keep the tripod in one place so you would take measurements on a known fixed point, move the tripod and then take a measurement to that same known fixed point (known as a back-sight I think). The difference in measurement would then need to be added or subtracted from any subsequent measurements to allow the plots to relate to each other. There's more to it than this- it's quite an art really. A good surveyor would know where to take his measurements, where closely spaced measurements were needed and where fewer more widely spaced points would do the job. Clearly the more points you measure the more accurate the profile but the more work involved both in measuring and plotting. Lasers and gps now make the whole process much easier and I believe can be done by one man as the theodolite "follows" the target staff. Of course the L&B used drone surveying techniques recently so more recent technology makes the job even easier. Thanks very much for taking the time and not "talking down" to an ignoramus such as I........ Yes, that all makes sense now-- especially that "Back-sighting".....As a 16 year-old Engine Room Artificer Apprentice doing Part 1 Basic Training at HMS Fisgard, Torpoint, Plymouth we would go out onto the Moors for a week to 10 days at a time in groups( Patrols) of 6 to learn basic survival and group leadership skills etc..........each day a different one would take overall responsibility whilst the remainder were encouraged to contribute to any problem solving along the way..............The one I remember is the "Going through a dense wood" problem where you have to deviate at least 3 times and eventually exit at the designated point.......So taking and recording a "Back-sighting" was essential to establish the datum for later on.. This was all part of a 50 mile "hike" with back-packs etc but NO INSTRUCTORS, NO MOBILE PHONES ( not in 1966 !!) ... just 3 designated "Report-in" places and then the very end itself.....But I still managed to see the end of steam on BR !! You can see how this all ties-in later on in Fleet Service with navigating at sea ( or in the Desert for that matter ) .... PS}--- This type of training continued during Part 2 at HMS Caledonia, Rosyth, Fife, Scotland...............The Cairngorms,... in Winter,...... and we think we're off route !! Happy Days !!
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Post by delaplume on Feb 23, 2019 19:30:48 GMT
Inspired by seeing other pacific types at the show yesterday I've taken the plunge and started the Bear's frame modifications.........If you remember this was down to the frames originally being designated for a Castle loco (one of the later types ) which had a straight mainframe alongside the bogie...Wheel clearance was provided by having a large "Scallop" in the top of the arch where the bogie wheel flange would go during extreme track radius curves..... The Castle frames evolved from the earlier Star locos, all of which had the mainframes joggled-in slightly at the same point.......Therefore my frames needed 2 mods}--- 1) A filler plate welded into the large curve opening over the front wheel.....that was done last year, and 2) A separate "Joggled" plate inserted into the mainframes... So I've made a start on part 2..........which means I'll have to rescue the Warco mill from it's covering of "Things" !!! Builders of Stars, Castles, Kings, Princess, Duchess will no doubt be familiar with these photos I would think ?? More--later.. Alan
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Post by delaplume on Feb 23, 2019 23:09:53 GMT
And here is what all the fuss is about}---------- These are both of GWR 4-6-0, No.4003 Lode Star at York Museum.. Note}--- 1) The traditional brass beading is missing on the wheel splashers....... 2) The distinctive profile of the front end of the frames....very noticeable on The Bear also... 3) The single Orange lining stripe is actually painted ON the rivet snap heads !!...........I'll be putting the final painting out to contract so we'll see what they make of that !!
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