mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,713
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Post by mbrown on Dec 9, 2018 18:53:33 GMT
I have been wondering for some time what to build once my Burma Mines loco was complete. I put the question to one side while I repainted by Bagnall 0-4-2T - but I finished that today so, once it is reassembled, I won't have a project on the go...
All my locos are 2.5"g based on 2'g prototypes. On balance I would like to stick with the same gauge and scale.
My three existing locos represent:
- an English-built loco for the UK market (Bagnall) - a US built loco for the UK market (Lyn of the Lynton & Barnstaple) - A British built loco for the overseas market (NBL Burma Mines loco)
… so I was wondering about a loco from a different school of design. Possibly one from Continental Europe ??
Other requirements:
1. a decent size to pull more than one passenger.
2. a reasonably sized boiler with a decent grate area to make steam easily.
3. vacuum brakes (Lyn and the BMR loco have these and once you've stopped your train with a little handle in the cab you don't want to go back to hauling a lever on the driving trolley...)
4. Preferably not too much repetition work. I've not yet got into computer design or CNC. (No 4-8-2x2-8-4 Garretts for example!)
5. Most important - availability of fairly detailed drawings.
That is quite a stringent list and I doubt if any prototype meets every condition. So here's my question:
Does anyone know of any 2'g prototypes which meet most of those conditions, especially the last? I have drawings of the SAR NG15 which are a perfect match except for point no.4. It would make a massive model for 2.5"g - but would I complete it this side of the grave?
I'd be very interested if anyone on the forum has other ideas - there must be loads of prototypes I have never considered, and if you know of works drawings anywhere, that would be brilliant.
Thanks for thinking about it.
Malcolm
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Post by delaplume on Dec 9, 2018 18:59:53 GMT
Hi Malcolm,
Just to start the ball rolling}---- Maybe something of a Germanic nature ??.....I've no particular design in mind at the moment but thought that small wheels + Big cylinders fed from a Big boiler would give you point 1 ??
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 19:18:00 GMT
Hi Malcolm...I know nothing off foreign loco's or 2 1/2 gauge...However' my first port of call would be John Baguley of the 2 1/2" assocoation. He is a member of this forum ID is Baggo....might be worth trying to get in touch with him...he's very knowledgable guy and always willing to help.
Pete
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Post by Cro on Dec 9, 2018 20:17:38 GMT
Malcolm,
As far as SAR locos I have a hugeeeeeee collection of SAR works drawings so if you go down that route I'm more than happy to help on the drawing front, if you want a list of what I have drop me a message and I'll get something over to you. The 15fs make amazing locos in 5" but in 2 1/2" would still be a monster and a brilliant one at that if your past builds are anything to go by!
Dad and I are working hard on his 2 1/2" locos but we are very much in the traditional British prototypes:
SR Schools rebuild Black 5 scratch build Purley Grange p/b of grandads which today we managed to acquire a very nicely made tender but the boiler is useless so it's now a boiler and platework job to finish.
I'd like to one day do a 9f and Duchess in this Gauge too but the 15F does seem very appealing now you have mentioned it.
Adam
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Lisa
Statesman
Posts: 806
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Post by Lisa on Dec 9, 2018 20:41:37 GMT
Might I add the Bundaberg Fowler into the mix? A fairly modern 2' gauge 0-6-2T built for the cane industry here in Australia. It was based on an earlier Fowler design, which was licensed, modernised (roller bearing axleboxes for example), and built locally by the Bundaberg Foundry. I think the only thing on your list it doesn't have is vacuum brakes, but you could probably add them. I have works drawings I can share. Here's a documentary on BFC 5 in preservation, to whet the appetite. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jb4o8cstGs
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,713
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Post by mbrown on Dec 9, 2018 21:24:10 GMT
Many thanks - some interesting suggestions here. That little Fowler is a delightful loco Lisa - maybe a bit too similar to my Bagnall.... but one to think about maybe.
Adam, the drawings I have for the NG15s are amazingly detailed. I bought them after following a link on this forum a few years ago. It's a complicated design which would be really challenging to build.
I have also looked at an interesting Orenstein and Koppel 0-8-0 from the Mecklenberg Pomeranian Rly - but I believe that drawings from O&K no longer exist. If anyone knows different, do tell me!
Also I considered the German WW2 Heersfeldbahn 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 designs. They were adaptable for 2' or 2'6" gauges. I have a rather basic GA of the 0-6-0 but it works out quite small. The 0-8-0 was a tender/tank design and one modified version is Sir Drefaldwyn of the Welshpool and Llanfair, but it's an ugly brute, to be honest! Some of both designs were vacuum fitted in later life. But again, I haven't found good drawings of the prototypes.
The NG15s and the Heersfeldbahns locos all had piston valves - and I am quite tempted to have a go at piston valve cylinders for the first time. I am always up for new challenges....
Do others have this problem deciding what to build? But do keep suggestions coming!
Malcolm
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Post by suctionhose on Dec 9, 2018 22:54:10 GMT
Do others have this problem deciding what to build? But do keep suggestions coming! Malcolm Well, yes actually. It's the design and building journey that I enjoy most. Each new project has to offer a different experience and new challenges. Double edge sword really: new learning but a greater commitment required and a longer build time to end product. Last time, I had a spread sheet going with 4 or 5 prospective candidates with pros and cons scored and totalled. Still no clear winner. Then some second hand castings and materials became available for one of them and that was the clincher! I'm 4 years in now (3" ploughing engine) with maybe another 4 to go! Not easy but very pleasing. BTW I have built 2 of the Fowlers Lisa mentioned in 5"g. Still run mine each month. It's an old favourite!
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Post by delaplume on Dec 10, 2018 0:19:26 GMT
"Well, yes actually. It's the design and building journey that I enjoy most".........Me too !!...Hence The Great Bear and all that is involved in research, design and ( hopefully ) the build ..
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,896
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Post by jma1009 on Dec 10, 2018 0:20:13 GMT
Hi Malcolm,
Might I suggest an LBSCR H2 Atlantic ala 'Beachy Head' fast approaching completion on the Bluebell Railway? An iconic 2.5"g loco as per 'Ayesha', but a proper 'update' with piston valves as per the originals. The Bluebell and the NRM have all the relevant drawings.
A 'super duper' 'Ayesha'!
Cheers,
Julian
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Post by delaplume on Dec 10, 2018 0:33:09 GMT
Hi Malcolm, Might I suggest an LBSCR H2 Atlantic ala 'Beachy Head' fast approaching completion on the Bluebell Railway? An iconic 2.5"g loco as per 'Ayesha', but a proper 'update' with piston valves as per the originals. The Bluebell and the NRM have all the relevant drawings. A 'super duper' 'Ayesha'! Cheers, Julian Here's a GWR man ( myself ) appreciating a really lovely loco !!.........
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,713
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Post by mbrown on Dec 10, 2018 7:22:49 GMT
Thanks Julian,
Since the 2.5"g Soc updated Ayesha, there are an awful lot of them around - although all the ones I have seen go like the clappers.
If I were to drop the narrow gauge theme and go for a 2.5"g standard gauge design, I wondered about a Merchant Navy with three cylinders (and even the chain driven valve gear??) - maybe just too fiddly!
Malcolm
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Post by gingerneer on Dec 10, 2018 8:28:38 GMT
Malcom Maybe some like with articulated axles like this from O&K Matheran Light Railway No.740 by SteveInLeighton's Photos, on Flickr Or what about a geared logging style loco Logging Locomotive by Ralph Cruickshank, on Flickr From the 'other side of the world' a pretty W class NZR tank loco Steam locomotive W192 by Bernard Spragg. NZ, on Flickr Or from Spain a Corpet-Louvet lever drive Minas de Aller No. 2 by 40011 MAURETANIA, on Flickr Yes lots of Ayesha's around, maybe a LBSC Catapillar for shear pulling power? Ooooooooooooh a 2 1/2" gauge Spamcan, in Malichite green...... 34081 passing through Herston. by Gordon McCulloch, on Flickr One of the guys in the local club is slowly designing/building a 3 1/2" Merchant Navy, he has access to the full size locos and the plans. Like you say a lot going on inbertween the frames but its do able. Also you can hide what ever behind the air smooth casting. I have been thinking for a while about how i would build one, I would go for a round top boiler derived from Ayesha, the valve gear is a bit of a squeeze but possible solutions would be Hackwork gear driven from the crank axle (same as LBSC Mona) or as full size a separate crank shaft (driven by gears not chains) running Stevensons Valve gear (only very rough sketches at the moment) Doug Runddle from the Andover club is making good progress with his. www.bulleidlocos.org.uk/_wc/wcDoug.aspxWill
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Dec 10, 2018 11:11:51 GMT
There is a guy in the 2 1/2" association building a West Country with proper chain-driven valve gear.
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Post by delaplume on Dec 10, 2018 12:31:19 GMT
Collar and Tie on the Spanish loco Fireman ( ? )--------- nice touch !!
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Post by Cro on Dec 10, 2018 15:27:49 GMT
There is a guy in the 2 1/2" association building a West Country with proper chain-driven valve gear. Is that Doug? I did some casting for him, lovely work so far! Adam
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Dec 10, 2018 17:58:31 GMT
Indeed it is. Everything he does is superb. His 'Lion' is amazing.
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,713
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Post by mbrown on Dec 10, 2018 21:25:41 GMT
I have to say that the Matheran 0-6-0T with articulation is a fascinating prospect. I have a tiny (and clearly inaccurate) outline drawing with a few dimensions like wheelbase etc in an old O&K catalogue - but if the rumour that Orenstein & Koppel's drawings all disappeared 75 years ago courtesy of the RAF is true, the hope of finding detailed drawings for an accurate model may be slim...
Malcolm
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Post by simplyloco on Dec 10, 2018 22:56:13 GMT
If I was going to build another loco, which I am not (!) it would be something beautiful but challenging all the same, just like this one. John new loco to model by inkaboat, on Flickr
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milky
Seasoned Member
Posts: 120
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Post by milky on Dec 11, 2018 0:33:37 GMT
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Post by niels on Dec 11, 2018 4:36:36 GMT
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