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Post by westlin on Dec 11, 2018 21:18:03 GMT
Ive just bought a batch of silver solder rods but the guy was unsure what the temperature range they were. Is there an easy way of working out what they are?
Thanks
Stephen
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Post by delaplume on Dec 11, 2018 21:58:04 GMT
Hello Stephen....
I can't help you with the question as such but would ask you to consider NOT using them on a boiler or any boiler-related work if that boiler has a CE mark....
In the paperwork that goes with a CE stamped boiler is the section}--- "Permanent Jointing Materials". in which the "Filler Material" and "Welding Process" has to be accounted for.....and any repairs / modifications have to match the original specifications ( or if different then be approved ) and then be signed off by your Boiler Inspector...
Even for a Non-CE marked boiler I'd still be cautious......In any event get your Boiler Inspector involved..
Personally I'd be a bit cautious these days about buying silver solder from anyone other than a recognised supplier ..... The problem is that some of our Chinese friends appear to be sending sub-standard rods via E-purchase etc.....( Crammed with Cadmium etc.. )
You might try sending a rod to CupAlloy to ask their advice having first phoned them to pave the way.....Sorry to be gloomy..
Alan
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Post by silverfox on Dec 12, 2018 12:41:54 GMT
THat would be a nice little earner for them, send a snip of the rod and they come back with the temp range and composition for a small fee
Good PR and they have a customer for life
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jasonb
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,209
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Post by jasonb on Dec 12, 2018 13:18:03 GMT
Simple way to get an idea of temps in the home workshop is to snip off a bit of known solder and a similar sized piece of the unknown and heat them up together. they will either melt at the same time or one before the other which will narrow down the unknown ones temp range.
I would not use an unknown solder on any boiler or critical part, but fine for general soldered fabrications. Use in well ventilated space just in case the seller was breaking the law and selling off old Cad bearing solder
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Post by shauncup on Dec 13, 2018 13:08:20 GMT
Hi Westlin, the problem is that to analyse silver it needs to be done by an independent lab such as the Assay Office. This as you might imagine is expensive, and that's before we want to check cadmium!
Jasonb as usual offers some good advice. Not particularly scientific but heating a piece next to a piece of known alloy may give you an indication of whether it melts at a lower or higher temp. Unfortunately that is all it does and whatever the result you must heed what delaplume has stated if you plan on running your engine.
My advice would always to buy your silver brazing alloys fully labelled.
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Post by westlin on Dec 13, 2018 16:00:26 GMT
Thanks for the advice.
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Post by cupalloys on Dec 14, 2018 9:15:07 GMT
I have been banging on for years that folk should get a certificate of conformity when buying silver solder. By that I mean an original piece of paper and not a photo copy of something removed from a tube!
But you are right in wanting to know what you have got with your bargain. Cadmium bearing silver solder is still out there for sale. You won't get it from CuP Alloys but it is out there being sold illegally and at cheap prices.
50 years in the business has taught me what to look for and I am not tempted by cheap prices.
If you want to know what you have bought, send a piece to a laboratory and ask for a qualitative analysis for cadmium (tells you it is present) and a quantitative analysis for silver, copper, zinc and tin. Cost is approx £20 per element.
And you only have an analysis for the sample. Is it representative of the bulk?
I can't see a little earner in those costs for anyone!
With apologies to Specsavers - should have gone to CuP!
Keith
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Post by delaplume on Dec 14, 2018 9:47:37 GMT
Quote}---"With apologies to Specsavers - should have gone to CuP!"..........
Exactly !!.......My CuP runneth over... with knowledge and Experience that is !!
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Post by westlin on Dec 14, 2018 15:13:47 GMT
Im not going to loose any sleep over the £20 i spent on 50 sticks. If they turn out to be ok i will have saved a fortune ;<)
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Post by silverfox on Dec 14, 2018 17:48:07 GMT
Keith
I thought you could tell by just looking and feeling it, i had that much faith in you!!!!
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Post by simplyloco on Dec 14, 2018 19:07:05 GMT
Im not going to loose any sleep over the £20 i spent on 50 sticks. If they turn out to be ok i will have saved a fortune ;<) About ten years ago I bought 35 odd 2.0mm x 500mm sticks from a customer in a pawn shop. The shop owner didn't want them so I took the guy outside and gave him 35 quid for the lot! Right now about £350 worth...  |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Dec 14, 2018 21:03:41 GMT
Yes, but were they in their original packaging for identification and have you used them in a boiler? For general, non boiler work, I think both you and the OP can congratulate yourselves on a bargain
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Post by simplyloco on Dec 14, 2018 21:55:18 GMT
Yes, but were they in their original packaging for identification and have you used them in a boiler? For general, non boiler work, I think both you and the OP can congratulate yourselves on a bargain No, but I did a like for like heat up with some Easyflo and it's the same stuff! |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Dec 14, 2018 22:59:05 GMT
I have been banging on for years that folk should get a certificate of conformity when buying silver solder. By that I mean an original piece of paper and not a photo copy of something removed from a tube! But you are right in wanting to know what you have got with your bargain. Cadmium bearing silver solder is still out there for sale. You won't get it from CuP Alloys but it is out there being sold illegally and at cheap prices. 50 years in the business has taught me what to look for and I am not tempted by cheap prices. If you want to know what you have bought, send a piece to a laboratory and ask for a qualitative analysis for cadmium (tells you it is present) and a quantitative analysis for silver, copper, zinc and tin. Cost is approx £20 per element. And you only have an analysis for the sample. Is it representative of the bulk? I can't see a little earner in those costs for anyone! With apologies to Specsavers - should have gone to CuP! Keith I could be wrong, but I don't remember being given a certificate of conformity when I bought my silver solder from CUPalloy at the recent Midlands Exhibition----. I did however buy it in sealed packages clearly labelled and identified, so do I need to show these to the boiler inspector? |
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Post by shauncup on Dec 15, 2018 13:47:42 GMT
Hi ett, each of the packets of silver solder we sell are clearly labelled with alloy name, size, quantity, batch and specification they conform to. This is what we describe as the certificate of conformity. As well as other info such as melting range and a few words of advice. If required and requested we would happily supply a separate certificate but to do this with every order would probably equate to an Amazonian rainforest in paper and incur a cost.
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Post by shauncup on Dec 15, 2018 13:49:23 GMT
If you need any further advice or help with any brazing or soldering problem just give us a call or come and see us at the exhibitions. We are next at Ali Pally in Jan, stand 5 as usual. No obligation and no hard sell!!
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johnthepump
Part of the e-furniture
Building 7 1/4"G Edward Thomas
Posts: 493 
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Post by johnthepump on Dec 15, 2018 15:09:18 GMT
Im not going to loose any sleep over the £20 i spent on 50 sticks. If they turn out to be ok i will have saved a fortune ;<) About ten years ago I bought 35 odd 2.0mm x 500mm sticks from a customer in a pawn shop. The shop owner didn't want them so I took the guy outside and gave him 35 quid for the lot! Right now about £350 worth... Hi John, As somebody at the club today asked 'what were you doing in the pawn shop in the first place'? JtP. |
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Post by simplyloco on Dec 15, 2018 15:54:43 GMT
About ten years ago I bought 35 odd 2.0mm x 500mm sticks from a customer in a pawn shop. The shop owner didn't want them so I took the guy outside and gave him 35 quid for the lot! Right now about £350 worth... Hi John, As somebody at the club today asked 'what were you doing in the pawn shop in the first place'? JtP. Sorry John, it was a typing error, but it's the same pronunciation... |
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