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Post by gingerneer on Apr 24, 2019 15:16:29 GMT
Great work Tim, it's much neater than the tender I put together, although I learnt a lot for next time. The pipe work for the pump is a bit fiddly, it has to be assembled the correct way. Another lamb has been finished in the local club, and should be steam tested soon.
Will
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timb
Statesman
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Post by timb on Apr 24, 2019 17:04:29 GMT
Great work Tim, it's much neater than the tender I put together, although I learnt a lot for next time. The pipe work for the pump is a bit fiddly, it has to be assembled the correct way. Another lamb has been finished in the local club, and should be steam tested soon. Will Thanks Will, it seems to be coming together OK so far. I have been looking at the pipework and I think I have some fun and games to come. I am especially worried about the exhaust pipes. There is not much room and a lot going on with a couple of flanges to negotiate. If you have any advice I am all ears. I would be interested in any photos of other Lambs if there are any to be seen. I hope the steam test goes well!
Tim
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timb
Statesman
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Post by timb on Apr 30, 2019 13:26:08 GMT
Bending time is here........
Here goes, I cannot put it off any longer. 22g Brass plate cut square to size and marked out. 22g has a nom thickness of 0.028 so I am allowing about 1/32 for bending thicknesses and all lines have been marked out 1/32 undersize for each bend accordingly.
I have a bandsaw which can be used upright. I have fitted it with a large square of plate steel in place of the blade guide for use as a table and cut out to the lines.
All going well so far.... This is to be bent up into a well with a flange all around the top to allow for soldering to the underside of the sole plate. The angled bits are bent up to form tabs to allow the well sides to be soldered together to form the box - I am sure you get the idea.
As the flange is reverse bent to all the rest I decided - wrongly as it turned out - to do these first. I made a Vee groove and corresponding dolly for the fly press and used this quite successfully.
Still looking OK. The tabs are folded up 1/32 in front of the sides so that they are hidden once the box is folded up. I bent these up next using the vice. Unfortunately I found I could not use the press as I had already bent up the flange on the side and could not get the plate flat. I realised that the second side bend was going to have the same issue as well.
To get the second bend on the sides done I had to cut up a length of square section to fit between the tabs and bend by hand in the vice, finishing off with light hammer blows. I was not so comfortable now and although its not bad the bends are not as sharp as I had hoped, as can be seen on the second image.
As the flange bends were now out of the way I could bend the ends up in the press. I was quite pleased to see the tabs fit snugly behind the sides. I also took the opportunity to use the press on the side bends in an attempt to sharpen them up, it kind of worked but not as well as I had hoped.
The outside was not too bad, but you can still see the deformity of the bends along the sides compared to the ends. Reasonably pleased I soft soldered the tabs to the sides and created a nice fillet along the corners.
After a bit of fettling and some violent persuasion of the rough bits I managed to get a reasonable finish and look.
However when offered up to the soleplate I could not get the flange to sit flat as there was one side longer than the rest. Difficult to see but the rear side is higher than the rest by a fraction. The sole plate is only 18g so I did not want the well to distort the soleplate once bolted up. I used my vee dolly and hammer to move the bend to its righ place but this was very much a pain to do. The flange was then filed to the same size as the others. Incidently when I soldered the sides I did not remove all the marking out blue. The residue that you can see here is baked on and will not come off with meths!
Happy that it was reasonably flat I lined up and drilled for 10BA fixing holes. Once screwed together the lot is soldered to form a watertight well - thats the theory.
Well another go at bending sheet and another failure, although I eventually got a useable piece out of it. If anyone can see where I am going wrong I would welcome comments. I realise that my sequence of bends was wrong, but how I managed to get one side longer than the other is beyond me. Although I eventually managed to resolve this, the finish on the bend is not brilliant but will do.
I decided to silver solder the bypass pipe connections to the gland to cheer myself up!
The next job is to assemble it all and solder up to be watertight. Hope its all square when I have finished!
Thanks for looking in.
Tim
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
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Post by JonL on Apr 30, 2019 14:50:30 GMT
I think that looks excellent. Getting the tabbing correct must have been quite a challenge.
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timb
Statesman
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Post by timb on Apr 30, 2019 16:52:41 GMT
I think that looks excellent. Getting the tabbing correct must have been quite a challenge. Thanks Nobby, I was determined they would line up even if nothing else did. I found it challenging for sure, I guess quite straightforward to others. As I have said before I really struggle with this kind of thing, even bending up sides for a lube tank!
Tim
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
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Post by barlowworks on Apr 30, 2019 19:27:38 GMT
Hi Tim
I also have had problems bending up sheet into anything resembling the required shape. I did find that the purchase of a 90 degree angle V cutter for the mill helped me get nice tight bends. If you allow half the thickness of the sheet inside the line then cut the groove half the thickness of the sheet it works out about right. The resulting bends do seen quite rigid but a fillet of solder run down the seam would be a belt and braces approach. Hope this helps.
Mike
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on May 28, 2019 7:24:30 GMT
Work and some home jobs have kept me out of the workshop for a while. I managed to steal a couple of hours over the weekend and had some success and some failures as a result. The filtered water tank needs to be soldered to the soleplate but first I need to create some solid fixings for the hand pump that will not fail and fall into the inaccessable tank area over time. I decided on a block of brass soft soldered to the underside of the soleplate. The surface area should make it pretty secure and provide for good thread bearing.
I soldered the block on using bakers fluid and a propane gas torch. I dropped the solid piece on the plate, soldered up then drilled the holes. The photo shows steel bolts fitted while the brass cheeseheads arrive.
Although I heated the whole plate up I was amazed to see how much the plate warped when the heat was applied to the centre. I let this cool naturally on a flat surface but the warp remained. Thankfully the water tank is rigid enough to pull it straight.
The water tank was fitted with its 10 BA screws and soldered up again with the propane torch.
I managed to get a nice bead all around or so I thought. One of the corners had a leak!
You can also see that the pipes for boiler feed and return were soldered at the same time. Fortunately soft solder allows a degree of "patching" and the hole was filled this time using an iron to localise the heat.
The 'words and music' say to solder a brass mesh over the two straining holes. I know this is in the belly of the tender and will be seldom seen but try as I might I could not get it to look 'nice'. In fact the best I could do was this dogs breakfast.
I am not happy with this and will ponder on what to do. Well, back to decorating for me, play time over for a while!
Thanks for looking in.
Tim
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Post by philh1aa on May 28, 2019 18:08:11 GMT
Tim,
You have successfully used a soldering iron to repair the hole in the well tank. Would an iron not work for all the other tender soldering? I ask because I am about to solder a tender body for a 3 1/2" gauge engine and many of the LBSC writings say you should avoid a lamp because of plate distortion. My platework is relatively flat and straight at the moment (pre soldered) I would hate to ruin it.
Phil H
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on May 28, 2019 19:46:32 GMT
Tim, You have successfully used a soldering iron to repair the hole in the well tank. Would an iron not work for all the other tender soldering? I ask because I am about to solder a tender body for a 3 1/2" gauge engine and many of the LBSC writings say you should avoid a lamp because of plate distortion. My platework is relatively flat and straight at the moment (pre soldered) I would hate to ruin it. Phil H Hi Phil, yes the iron worked OK but it is a big iron and took a good time - maybe a minute or two - to get the area hot enough to get the solder to run, the sole plate is 18g and the tank 22g brass. The mesh was soldered using the same iron and contributed to the unsightly mess in my opinion. I was OK using the torch to solder the water tank in as it was strong enough to stop any warping. I would say that you do not need much heat and using a torch allowed a larger area to get hot to allow the solder to flow. My suggestion would be to try both iron and torch on some scrap to see what the effects are. I do not think I would have such a nice result on the tank soldering using an iron only.
Good luck!
Tim
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JohnF
Active Member
Looking for lost Mojo
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Post by JohnF on May 29, 2019 11:06:54 GMT
Tim,
I would tin the outer edges of the gauze and tin the same area on the plate then use iron to sweat them on, You should have a much cleaner end result.
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Post by gingerneer on May 31, 2019 20:30:34 GMT
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on Jun 2, 2019 10:55:05 GMT
Hi Gingerneer. Those look fantastic, I am especially impressed that someone has managed to get a wrapper fitted to the red one, not much room there! A great spur for me to get on with it, thank you so much for posting! congrats on the successful steam test!
Tim
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on Jun 3, 2019 10:49:56 GMT
I decided that a bezel of some sort would hide the ugly soldering mess and set about designing something in brass. It then occured to me to make it so that no soldering was required, this would allow cleaning or replacement of the mesh if requred. I came up with the following:
I removed the old mesh and cleaned the soleplate before fixing in place with 10BA brass screws. I left these the full 1/2" long as I figure they will be easier to remove when the tank sides are soldered on. I think this looks better.
A few jobs to complete before the tank sides are fitted viz completing the brakes and fitting the coupling pin.
The brakes are actuated via a threaded rod in a column pulling on a pivoted arm to give linear movement. The pivot was fitted first. I had to modify this slightly as I could not get in to properly remove the burr on the inside of the frames so a recessed groove was cut at the end of the threaded part of the stud.
The next step was to fit the column itself. To locate this properly I needed to fix the soleplate to the frame. This was done with four countersunk screws threaded into the drag beams. I got a bit carried away and drilled for the coupling rod pin at the same time but as you can see in the photo I managed to get this in the wrong place some how! Quite annoying!!!
To fit the column I drilled the locating hole to dimension but I could not for the life of me get the threaded part of the rod into the captive nut AND the column in the hole at the same time. I opened the hole up a little but this had no effect. It was not until I eyed along the axis of the nut that I realised the nut itself was at an angle to the arm. The arm is fabricated with two sides filed to size then silver soldered to a pivot tube. I disassembled the arm from the frame and held one half in the vice whilst heating up the rest to melt the solder. This allowed me to move the other side of the arm to make the nut square with a pair of pliers. It was less than a degree out but enough to cause a problem. Once cooled It all went together better, I still have to fit the handle to the top of the shaft.
The brakes were completed by fitting the final connecting rod. This was sized in situ and fitted with the previously made fork ends.
The last job was the coupling pin. Lhe lug was turned up in the four jaw and screwed in to the drag beam. I could then use this as a guide to drill through into the soleplate and cover my previous mistake.
The pin was turned up from silver steel. There won't be much chance of sheering even a brass pin but you never know! I made the shape to be friendly to numb fingers on a wet winters morning!
Ready for fitting the tank sides. I have been watching the progress of soldering activities by others on this forum and picking up tips. Hopefully all will go well, the tender is almost finished now and a boiler awaits!
Thanks for looking in!
Tim
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stevep
Elder Statesman
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Post by stevep on Jun 3, 2019 13:53:12 GMT
Tim,
Not sure if there is something to stop the coupling pin from jumping out, but I would recommend fitting something to make sure it stays in place. You don't want to be separated from your engine when you're running.
At Tiverton club, we insist on securing ('R') pins or similar on all our couplings, and the one between engine and tender is just as important as the ones to the passenger trollies.
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on Jun 3, 2019 16:05:12 GMT
Tim, Not sure if there is something to stop the coupling pin from jumping out, but I would recommend fitting something to make sure it stays in place. You don't want to be separated from your engine when you're running. At Tiverton club, we insist on securing ('R') pins or similar on all our couplings, and the one between engine and tender is just as important as the ones to the passenger trollies. Excellent point, thanks Steve, I will attend to it and fit an 'R' pin as you suggest.
Tim
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Post by gingerneer on Jun 3, 2019 16:39:37 GMT
Tim, Tamiya (RC cars) do small R clips, they are what i have been using. Also you might want to make a longer draw bar up for running, to make get at the fire hole door easier.
Will
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on Jun 3, 2019 18:16:47 GMT
Tim, Tamiya (RC cars) do small R clips, they are what i have been using. Also you might want to make a longer draw bar up for running, to make get at the fire hole door easier. Will Thanks Will,
What kind of length are we looking at, I noticed both are significantly longer in the photos now you mention it.
Tim
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Post by gingerneer on Jun 4, 2019 7:59:03 GMT
Tim She is packet away at the moment, so these photos are the best at hand now (i will get it out at the weekend and measure). It feels and looks like just under 2" hole centre to hole centre. A way around the long link would be to make the front bulk head in the tender removable or have a cut out. I don't use that space when running, i have a coal pot on the drive trolley, although the space is useful for storing the grate and link bar when she is not running. Access to the fire could also be improve by a horizontal hinge flip down door, i know the typical loco fire hole door is a vertical hinge but its fiddly, when you are firing both on the run and stationary the door is opened and closes as quickly as shovel of coal can be got it to the box. I think there is a balnce to be struck in how Curly designed and intended the loco run and the practicalities in actually steam a Lamb. IMAG0948 by tapdieuk, on Flickr IMAG0943 by tapdieuk, on Flickr The Red Lamb in the photos above has had its boiler raised to make room for the cladding, at that its just painted thin brass. I think a way around is to roll the barrle an 1/8" or more smaller. Camden Miniature books do some thin ceramic lagging. If you are going to lag the barrel you might as well do the back head. Its a fiddly pig of a job but can be done, this photo is from the current project. A Chimera of a loco, using a Lamb boiler and steam circuit. Its not the best photo, but it also show the flip down door. Will 20190602_000242 by tapdieuk, on Flickr
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Post by clockworld on Jul 28, 2019 8:56:26 GMT
Tim, I will read this in more detail later but I am about to embark on a Canterbury Lamb loco that was also started quite a while ago and then left to rust - so quite a bit to re-make and finish.
Matt
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on Aug 29, 2020 11:06:08 GMT
OK, I recon its high time I got on with this - thanks SimplyLoco! I have been away with work a lot the end of last and most of this year - even with the covid thing - and not wanting to spoil anything I had done to the Lamb earlier, I have been putting it off. By rights I should be completing the tender which just needs soldering up and a bead adding to finish it off. Until I can get back into the swing of things I am going to leave it as it is and move onto the boiler - something new that should get my 'eye in' so to speak. The boiler then. Flanging plates cut out of 1/4 steel plate, takes a bit of doing but is a good workout. I drew the boiler out in CAD to get the actual dimensions of the formers and overlaid them to ensure everything lined up before cutting and drilling the pilot holes. The edges are rounded off with a file by eye, I guess there should be a specific radius for this, I just made it so it looked right? The boiler man at our club has requested some changes to the design so modifications have to be made. Curly suggests the barrel part of the wrapper is overlapped by 1/4" and riveted before soldering. This will be changed to the wrapper ends butting up and a strip of 1/2" wide copper riveted and soldered along the seam. The other requirement up to now is that the throat plate must be flanged to the wrapper and not butted up with a fillet of solder as per LBSC design. To achieve both these requirements the wrapper needs to be reasonably accurate so a rolled cut sheet might not be enough. I elected to make a former from MDF for this purpose. A jig was made for my bandsaw to cut out discs with a hole in the centre. I used the same jig to cut the rounded tops to the firebox end also. The round 'slices' were pushed onto a length of threaded rod with PVA glue between each slice to form the whole. Once dry the rod was removed and the cylinder mounted to the lathe to get it to shape. I used a spade bit to act as a driving dog. Once to shape I sanded them with the hope that I would get a nice finish but only achieved a well used doormat look. The surface was quite spongy and I was not happy that I would be able to push the copper sheet around it without getting flat spots. After some thought I decided to paint it with primer to see if this would improve things. Here it is completely assembled after a three coats of primer, with a rub down between coats it is much more stable. The shape is not as even as I wuld have liked, it seems the surface of the MDF machined better than the middle so there is a ribbed effect however I dont think this will effect the copper sheet any as it is perpendicular to the direction I will be bending. The next job is to cut some copper, I have the 18g wrapper sheet but the 13g for the tube plate and backhead is in the post. I think I will make up these before I start the wrapper, is that the right way around? Does it matter?? Thanks for looking in. Tim
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