|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 15:12:44 GMT
IIRC there's a plastic kit of 'Perkasa' out there, perhaps it could be modified to be Brave Borderer?
Pete
|
|
|
Post by goldstar31 on Jan 26, 2019 16:26:22 GMT
Around 1940, I was taken onto Felling Shore on Tyneside to see the two ships in Swan Hunters yard fitting out. They were the carrier Victorious and King George V, the latter camouflaged as a merchant shi.
From one of my RNVR contacts, a diving officer, KG5 slipped her moorings at night and was 'at sea' before anyone noticed.
The odd thing before the out break of war, HMS Manchester- the ship that nearly got torpedoed by the Brits was pooping off guns off Tynemouth. My expert who lectures seems to think that Manchester's guns were from WW1.
I was a little boy of perhaps 7 and reading a cheap magazine about the RAF Revue and a mock bombing of 'Port Hendon' with smoke coming from behind what I later saw the real smoke and flames of a PercivalProctor crash o the -now Queens Birthday on 21st April 1949 for behind the Graham White Co hangar- which was 31 Squadron's A flight hangar. I was a NCO on Tech Wing. Quite Deja Vu.
Later in February 1950 just before demob, I went to the nearby Odeon cinema in Edgware Road to see 'Morning Departure' a story of a submarine sinking. The a few days later, I was flying in the AOC in C Coastal Command's DH Devon VP-981 to see the real thing when HMS Truculent went down after a collision off Sheerness-- and the same lifting gear etc being used. More DeJa Vu.
And then for the Ally Pally Model Engineers, there was - the Bending of the Beam, the RAF School of Intelligence nearby and seemingly the Norwegians who were part of real 'Heroes ofTelemarc' nearby.
Who said 'National Service' was boring?
Norm
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 16:46:51 GMT
Hi Norm
Great story, regarding Manchester's guns, she was a modern light cruiser with both her main and secondary being modern weapons. many Royal Navy ships shared the same armaments, for example Manchester had the same secondary's as Hood and most other cruisers/larger ships for that era. They shared some others weapons too, the 'quad' 0.50" AA guns for example and coming to the WW1 subject, 3 pounder salute guns. I can't recall how many Manchester had, they were on her aft superstructure but Hood had 4 on her 'Admiral's' platform until IIRC 1939 when they were removed, might be 1940? so yes Manchester did have some old guns but not her main weaponry which was very modern.
Pete
|
|
|
Post by delaplume on Jan 26, 2019 17:17:24 GMT
Anybody interested in making an accurate scale model of Brave Borderer, the first gas turbine patrol boat made by Vospers, for the Royal Navy? As the company I worked for designed and built equipment for the Navy, being in the drawing office, I had a lowish security clearance, so they had no problem supplying me with official drawings. The boat is out of commision and sold now, so restictions on the drawings are long-gone. I have a G.A., assembly drawings of the transom flaps and line and hull section drawings, to make a correct shape hull. These drawings came from direct Vospers. In those days I didn't have a workshop to build a loco, so I made large scale model radio controlled boats. Although I had the drawings, I never got around to building Brave Borderer. Instead, I built a 4 feet long model of a Vosper Rescue and Target Towing launch, and ran it at MPBA (Model Power Boat Association) regattas, against smaller boats specifically designed for speed. They used to get a bit upset when a 4' long boat could beat them around the Naviga speed course. The best speed was timed at 25mph. The boat was powered by a 1hp Merco 61 glo motor, mounted in the stern, just in front of the rudder post. It then drove forward to a 2:1 Vee gearbox, which was connected to the shaft. The propeller was a 2" diameter, X50 racing prop, with a pitch of 6". With the Merco running at top speed it was doing 14,000 rpm, which meant the prop was doing 7k revs. Somewhere I have a photo of the boat at speed. I found it, with some others, in an old box of photos my mother had. I'll try and find them again and post some pics. Bob. Here's the Wiki for you}---------- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave-class_patrol_boat
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Jan 27, 2019 1:00:40 GMT
While I lived in Sydney and was a volunteer with the Heritage Fleet we were given a tour of the Vampire at the Maritime Museum, getting a look at a few places you don't usually get to see like the boiler room (stoke hold?) Really enjoyed that. Now I'm older and safe from having to take orders I'm starting to wish I'd spent a stint in the navy or air force. But when I was young enough to do it it seemed like the worst thing in the world, being told what to do! As for sextants, I borrowed a book from the library last week to learn how to use one and I'd like to make one, one day. Anyone know of a published design? David I've sent you a pm on the Davis Sextant I have. Hopefully it will be of interest.
Jim
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Jan 27, 2019 4:27:25 GMT
Just a bit more nauticalia: This is a Saura small ships compass that I picked up in a poor state for $20.00 at a boat jumble. Once home I was able to do it up, refill the compass bowl and get it back to working order. The only thing missing that I must make sometime is the lamp that fits beneath the bowl to illuminate the compass card for when sailing at night.
I have a photo of our eldest daughter as a Sub Lieut taking a bearing while on a Freemantle class patrol boat. She and another lass were selected as the first two women to be posted to a RAN warship as part of a trial before the general introduction of women in sea postings.
Jim
|
|
|
Post by delaplume on Jan 27, 2019 7:58:26 GMT
Thank you one and all for these wonderful contributions---------please do keep them coming. The nearest I can get to anything "Exciting" was not long after "Taking the Queen's shilling" and still doing my "Basic" at HMS Fisgard the whole ship's company were called to assembly in the main Dining Hall one evening where the Commanding Officer explained that all Military personnel in the Devon and Cornwall area were to be taken by lorry and coach transport the next morning to North Devon where reports of a ship going aground had just come in............. This was the Torrey Canyon ........... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrey_Canyon_oil_spillLiterally with buckets and spades we, and other Military units, were the Government's first reaction...........That smell of Heavy Crude mixed with salt water remains with me to this day............The sight of seagulls dead and dying in the oil soaked sand etc......You all know the rest as there have been many more Eco-Disasters since, but this was the very first and nobody knew what to do !!............ and I had just turned 16 in August '66
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Jan 27, 2019 8:41:17 GMT
Anybody interested in making an accurate scale model of Brave Borderer, the first gas turbine patrol boat made by Vospers, for the Royal Navy? As the company I worked for designed and built equipment for the Navy, being in the drawing office, I had a lowish security clearance, so they had no problem supplying me with official drawings. The boat is out of commision and sold now, so restictions on the drawings are long-gone. I have a G.A., assembly drawings of the transom flaps and line and hull section drawings, to make a correct shape hull. These drawings came from direct Vospers. In those days I didn't have a workshop to build a loco, so I made large scale model radio controlled boats. Although I had the drawings, I never got around to building Brave Borderer. Instead, I built a 4 feet long model of a Vosper Rescue and Target Towing launch, and ran it at MPBA (Model Power Boat Association) regattas, against smaller boats specifically designed for speed. They used to get a bit upset when a 4' long boat could beat them around the Naviga speed course. The best speed was timed at 25mph. The boat was powered by a 1hp Merco 61 glo motor, mounted in the stern, just in front of the rudder post. It then drove forward to a 2:1 Vee gearbox, which was connected to the shaft. The propeller was a 2" diameter, X50 racing prop, with a pitch of 6". With the Merco running at top speed it was doing 14,000 rpm, which meant the prop was doing 7k revs. Somewhere I have a photo of the boat at speed. I found it, with some others, in an old box of photos my mother had. I'll try and find them again and post some pics. Bob. Here's the Wiki for you}---------- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave-class_patrol_boatOne point I would make about the Wiki piece...They state that the Brave class was the last of the type to be used by the Royal Navy. Wrong!! They were the FIRST of the type (gas turbine patrol boats) in the world, and although the official maximum speed was quoted as 50 knots, unofficially they could reach 80 knots. At the time, the Royal Navy provided one of them each year that they were in service, to act as an emergency boat for the Round Britain Power Boat Race, because they were they only sea-going boats in existence that could keep up with the fastest power boats.
Bob.
|
|
|
Post by David on Jan 27, 2019 9:44:53 GMT
Love the compass Jim, great buy! It sounds like your daughter has had a good career too.
What did you fill the compass with?
|
|
jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,333
|
Post by jackrae on Jan 27, 2019 9:48:24 GMT
And just in case any of you need some helm operating instructions have a look at this www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocUD07fvf48My uncle had the dubious honour of being the manager of the yard that broke up King George V and many other warships, including, ironically, the minesweeper my father (his brother) served on
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Jan 27, 2019 11:36:30 GMT
Love the compass Jim, great buy! It sounds like your daughter has had a good career too. What did you fill the compass with? First up it was suggested I use baby oil but that damped the compass card far too much, the card taking minutes to come round then I read an article that suggested clean water with about a table spoon of methylated spirit added and that's what has been in the bowl for the last 6 or 7 years. I assume the meths kills any bacteria that could discolour the water.
This is a photo of our daughter taking bearings while aboard a Freemantle class patrol boat during an exercise to evaluate women in sea postings. Subsequently she served on patrol boats then bigger ships. I don't sail with my daughter..ever! It's it's like being with Capt Bligh.
Jim.
|
|
jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,333
|
Post by jackrae on Jan 27, 2019 13:25:29 GMT
When I had to refill a compass my father had on his trawler I used gin (otherwise known as 40% ethanol in water - with just a touch of juniper One point worth mentioning perhaps, is that if the bubble is large then in all probability the balloon has probably ruptured. (The balloon being there to compensate for thermal expansion)
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Jan 27, 2019 17:18:54 GMT
I found the photos. I had put them on Imgur so hopefully they will come out here. The first photo is the RTTL at speed around the MPBA Naviga course at Pitteville lake in Cheltenham, in the summer of 1969. The overall length of the boat is 48", so not exactly a tiddler. I found those photos on Imgur. Hope they come out on here as I haven't used Imgur for so long I had forgotten how to use it!! The first photo is the RTTL at speed on the MPBA Naviga course on Pitteville Lake in Cheltenham, during the Cheltenham Model Engineers 1969 National Model Boat Regatta. The next 2 are the boat on later years, at the same annual regatta. I gave the boat away to a next-door youngster, few years after the last photo, when I started building the loco. 1969 1974 1975 This is the Brave Borderer photo Vospers sent me with the drawings. It's the boat on her final test run before handing over to the Royal Navy. You can see the Ensign being flown is not the White Ensign as used on Royal Naval vessels, it is either the Red or Blue Ensign. I don't know which. Bob.
|
|
|
Post by David on Jan 28, 2019 1:29:13 GMT
A friend's brother was in the navy. When he was at home he used to 'order' my friend to 'make him a brew'. It didn't go as well as it did on the ship. I'm pretty sure he never got one.
When they were in the mess his brother wouldn't drink. He said he always had to be aware of who else was around, what was going on, and ensure he didn't damage his prospects of promotion.
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Jan 28, 2019 2:15:01 GMT
The famous navigator, Matthew Flinders' coffin has at last been located beneath Euston Station:
After all the poor fellow went through especially while a prisoner on Mauritius where he believed someone ate his devoted cat Trim you would think he could have been buried beneath St Pancras.
Jim
|
|
|
Post by delaplume on Jan 28, 2019 3:08:21 GMT
Here you go Bob}------------- Blue Ensign = en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_EnsignRed Ensign = en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_EnsignNote}----These are Ensigns or Flags, not to be confused with a Pennant or Burgee}---------- www.burgees.com/bgrouproyal.htmIn your photo I would suggest that it is a Blue Ensign as the vessel is an HM Gov. contract purchase.....Ships in the Royal Naval Auxilliary will fly the Bluey as well........As you say it can't be the RN's White Ensign and it's not a purely civilian ship ( Red Ensign or "Red Duster" )
|
|
|
Post by delaplume on Jan 28, 2019 3:44:20 GMT
Battle of the River Plate via the BBC's Timewatch programme-----enjoy !! youtu.be/w4bm1cydx5EUPDATE}----- the background music (if that's the right word ? ) overpowers the main presentation somewhat and there appears to be a fault in the recording towards the very end but the original film and photos are interesting non the less....... I seem to remember that the huge Bronze Eagle casting was recovered from the Graf Spee's stern a few years ago.... ??
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Jan 28, 2019 9:31:34 GMT
Here you go Bob}------------- Blue Ensign = en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_EnsignRed Ensign = en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_EnsignNote}----These are Ensigns or Flags, not to be confused with a Pennant or Burgee}---------- www.burgees.com/bgrouproyal.htmIn your photo I would suggest that it is a Blue Ensign as the vessel is an HM Gov. contract purchase.....Ships in the Royal Naval Auxilliary will fly the Bluey as well........As you say it can't be the RN's White Ensign and it's not a purely civilian ship ( Red Ensign or "Red Duster" ) Yes. I guessed it was the Blue Ensign because it was an R.N. contract and probably commanded by an R.N. officer on it's final test before being delivered, but wasn't at all sure.
Bob.
|
|
Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
|
Post by Midland on Jan 29, 2019 10:16:23 GMT
I wonder why a fast boat as this is would be under contract when it has tubes and guns bristling and notice that it does not have a pennant number. I suggest it was under trials just before delivery. That would fit in with the multitudes on the conning platform, the blue and the lack of a pennant number.
And now for something completely different . . . Our cadet training was completed with a 4 month cruise around the Pacific. As general list officers to be, we had to do engine room watches for a month or so and the ship I was in had a pair of four cylinder, triple expansion up and downers. One task was to 'feel' the bearings so we put our hand (carefully) into this rotating mass between the web and the bottom of the connecting rod at its big end feel the temperature. If hot, we turned on the suds for a while. Of course engine room watches were seventh heaven for me, not so for the fly boys to be who thought one landed on ships not actually make them go!!!! Of course a few months later and with a big gold stripe on my arm going down the engine room became an event and I used to say something like come to see these beauties, the matelot's response was less endearing. D
|
|
|
Post by delaplume on Jan 29, 2019 12:20:00 GMT
Hello everyone, Quote}---"I wonder why a fast boat as this is would be under contract when it has tubes and guns bristling and notice that it does not have a pennant number. I suggest it was under trials just before delivery" David, what I meant was that HM.Gov. had placed a contract with a private company ( ie Vospers ) for the vessel...who would have done any development or proving trial runs beforehand ( with the Red Ensign flying ) ... What the photo shows is its' very last "Trial Run" which in reallity is now the Acceptance Run and is thus being operated by representatives of the purchaser......hence the Blue Ensign....And of course it would have to be in full, operational condition etc.... hence all the hardware..... Civil airlines do exactly the same thing when collecting a new plane from the manufacturers....such as Boeing for example... A pennant would only come into play when it has been allocated to an operational Squadron or Division. Hope that's clarified it for you Best regards, Alan
|
|