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Post by andyhigham on Mar 2, 2019 20:11:04 GMT
I was thumbing through my copy of "The model steam locomotive" by Martin Evans and I noted he advocates sealing the blast pipe into the smokebox by making a "putty" from asbestos powder and water. I could understand if I was reading this in a Victorian but this book was published in 1985, we were well aware of the dangers associated with asbestos long before this date
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
Posts: 2,807
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Post by uuu on Mar 2, 2019 21:31:19 GMT
Do you remember the asbestos wall plugs "Rawlplastic"? A sort of hairy powder - you spat on it in your hand, rolled it into a plug and pushed it into the hole in the wall.
Wilf
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Post by andyhigham on Mar 2, 2019 21:44:31 GMT
Yes I remember my dad using it
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Post by steamlaser on Mar 2, 2019 22:14:26 GMT
In the 1980s our workshop happily turned and milled asbestos products. Some of the machines were covered in asbestos dust. There was no extraction and the poor cleaner would clean down the machines and sweep the floor afterwards. (The Cleaner later died of Cancer) The highly skilled and intelligent guys in the workshop refused to recognise the then known dangers of asbestos and continued to machine the stuff. The Head of Workshop "got out of his pram" if you advised him of the recognised hazards. Many years later, I had the sad duty of contacting all the then living members of the workshop team to tell them that two of their old colleques had lung cancer and that they should get themselves medically checked out. I had the same problem of people washing down oily components in Carbon Tetrachloride and smoking. I could continue about people silver soldering large items with the fume extraction switched off. (With a roll up in their mouth). Happy days(?)
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Post by andyhigham on Mar 2, 2019 22:47:54 GMT
Its strange how some safety practices were upheld and some ignored. My work unit is part of the "blow room" in Swan Lane cotton mill, air was blown through the raw cotton to remove the "bits" and straighten the fibres before going to the carding room. My unit still has remnants of the dust extraction system. Sadly the two magnificent steam engines are no longer in place, the former engine rooms are about 20M away but the boiler room and the Lancashire boilers are also long departed I also recall being able to see into Holdsworth mill from the top deck of a bus, the line shafts had plywood discs loosely fitted, as the shafts rotated the discs meandered up and down the shafts, stopping fibres sticking to the shafts thus preventing a possible fire path
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Post by ettingtonliam on Mar 3, 2019 0:35:12 GMT
I do remember, about 1965, at the age of 15, creating an asbestos powder by filing a piece of asbestos cement sheet with a coarse file, then mixing the filings with water so I could lag the cylinders of my 'Juliet' before fitting the cladding. Makes me shudder to think about it now.
The school provided heat proof gloves for us to wear when we were doing forgework in metalwork lessons. They were a sort of off white colour and fluffy, so very probably asbestos. We didn't use them very often, because they were thick and clumsy, and made holding the work and the hammer difficult.
We were still using asbestos cement pipes for water mains into the 1970s. There was, apparently, a special tool for cutting these pipes, but we didn't have it, so cut them with a disc cutter.
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Post by simplyloco on Mar 3, 2019 9:16:29 GMT
I was involved with a number of asbestos removal contractors during my QA days. The various truths, half-truths and downright myths surrounding asbestos were very good for their business... John
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Post by steamlaser on Mar 3, 2019 15:36:08 GMT
My uncle is a Medical Doctor whose speciality is Industrial Medicine. He has written some of the definitive medical papers on the hazards of asbestos. Over the years the validity of his work has proven to be correct. Many years ago he also warned me about the hazards of working with Glass Fibre which we then used as a substitute for lagging distillation columns. Having worked with white and blue asbestos, followed by handing glass fibre lagging rope, I am glad to have survived so far!
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,718
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Post by mbrown on Mar 3, 2019 18:43:30 GMT
In the past, I used the old fibrous Rawlplug material to seal smokeboxes. It was ideal - mixed with a little water it made a soft putty which didn't stick to your hands like silicone and which set nice and firm - but which could easily be scraped out (again, unlike silicone sealants) when you wanted to dismantle things. (And in may applications, it was a darn sight more use for putting screws into awkward wall plaster than the plastic bullet plugs).
It doesn't seem to be available anymore - presumably because it was, in effect, loose asbestos fibres... But when I was clearing my late mother's house last year, I found an unopened packet which has been duly hidden away in my workshop against the day that nothing else will do. I reckon that, used carefully, in small quantities, with due appreciation of the need for face masks etc. it should be OK.
If I am wrong, maybe a member with medical training will put me right before I kill myself inadvertently....
Malcolm
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millman
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 296
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Post by millman on Mar 3, 2019 19:00:09 GMT
Could someone tell me what the best modern smokebox sealants are, I have tried high temperature silicone and also Holts exhaust repair putty and am not very impressed with either, the silicone is messy and very difficult to remove and the exhaust putty sets like concrete
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Post by dhamblin on Mar 4, 2019 21:43:42 GMT
A safety bulletin was released at work last week to the effect that steel welding fumes are now considered carcinogenic by the WHO and increase the risk of lung cancer. There is now a big push to mitigate the risk through changes in working practice and use of respirator masks etc.
Regards,
Dan
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Post by simplyloco on Mar 4, 2019 23:08:58 GMT
A safety bulletin was released at work last week to the effect that steel welding fumes are now considered carcinogenic by the WHO and increase the risk of lung cancer. There is now a big push to mitigate the risk through changes in working practice and use of respirator masks etc. Regards, Dan Hi Dan. I'm back on my usual H&S hobby horse and I have to ask what is the risk factor, and what is the probability of a full time welder suffering measurable harm if he/she doesn't wear a mask? John
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Post by ettingtonliam on Mar 5, 2019 3:18:19 GMT
Is there a track record of long-time welders being more likely to suffer from lung cancer than the average male? (I could be wrong but I've never seen a female professional welder) Thats having discounted the effects of ciggies etc.
Given the problems we had in trying to get welders to wear hard hats instead of the usual spotty cap, I should think the chances of getting them to wear respirator masks is pretty low.
I'll get shouted down by the H&S crowd for this, but there is, IMHO, a point where loading the worker down with more and more PPE creates more problems than it solves. You'll all have seen workers on motorway improvement sites, in the middles of summer, wearing boots (yes, thats sensible), reflective over trousers, reflective coat (it has to have sleeves these days, the reflective waistcoat isn't enough), gloves, hard hat, ear defenders, safety glasses and dust mask. Have you ever thought what its like wearing that lot with temperatures in the 80s? Not conducive to well-being IMHO, and certainly not helpful to efficient productive working.
I'm glad I'm retired and don't have to do it any more.
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Post by dhamblin on Mar 5, 2019 7:54:53 GMT
Hi Dan. I'm back on my usual H&S hobby horse and I have to ask what is the risk factor, and what is the probability of a full time welder suffering measurable harm if he/she doesn't wear a mask? John Hi John, unfortunately the bulletin doesn't go into detail, although I'm sure there is a link to the WHO guidance. When I get into work I'll check it again and share the link. Regards, Dan
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Post by steamer5 on Mar 5, 2019 8:32:00 GMT
Quote... I'll get shouted down by the H&S crowd for this, but there is, IMHO, a point where loading the worker down with more and more PPE creates more problems than it solves. You'll all have seen workers on motorway improvement sites, in the middles of summer, wearing boots (yes, thats sensible), reflective over trousers, reflective coat (it has to have sleeves these days, the reflective waistcoat isn't enough), gloves, hard hat, ear defenders, safety glasses and dust mask. Have you ever thought what its like wearing that lot with temperatures in the 80s? Not conducive to well-being IMHO, and certainly not helpful to efficient productive working. I'm glad I'm retired and don't have to do it any more. I gotta agree with this! We get to wear boots, overall (with reflective strips) gloves, hard hat, (earmuffs attached) & glasses........try 32C & hi humidity to boot! Good for weight loss! Last place I work we wore Nomex overall, nice & light but even warmer, & given one of the areas we had to work in, short term walk thru luckily but temps over 40C not much fun! Cheers Kerrin
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Post by andyhigham on Mar 5, 2019 8:52:20 GMT
A site I was working insisted everyone wore Hard hats, boots, High Viz waistcoat and gloves. There was an almighty row in the boiler house between the welder and the (self appointed) safety officer. The safety officer was insisting the welder was not wearing correct PPE. He was wearing one piece cotton overalls, welding gloves, welding mask and a leather apron. The argument was about him not wearing a nylon (flammable) high viz waistcoat. The welder walked off site
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Post by dhamblin on Mar 5, 2019 16:16:36 GMT
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Post by simplyloco on Mar 5, 2019 17:14:01 GMT
Pretty draconian, but a vacuum cleaner (LEV) next to the weld spot should do the trick!
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jackrae
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,333
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Post by jackrae on Mar 5, 2019 17:35:57 GMT
Anyone ever wondered why a steeplejack has to wear a hard-hat but professional' footballers don't.
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Post by andyhigham on Mar 5, 2019 17:49:17 GMT
It does not mention the type of welding. Fumes from stick welding are totally different from MIG,TIG or gas welding
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