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Post by ettingtonliam on Apr 14, 2019 18:54:59 GMT
It isn't free though, is it, apart from the 30 day initial trial? nanocad appears to be, at the moment anyway.
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Post by ettingtonliam on Apr 15, 2019 5:24:13 GMT
So, I downloaded the free basic nanocad, got the email giving me my login details, but it just won't open for me. Whenever I try to sign in, it rejects me for incorrect details. Grr. Never had this problem with draftsite.
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Post by andyhigham on Apr 15, 2019 6:52:03 GMT
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Post by Roger on Apr 15, 2019 8:04:26 GMT
Is it really a good idea to opt for 2D drafting when these products are already more or less obsolete? It's quite likely that these won't receive any more development and may well vanish in the next few years leaving you with files you can't open.
3D modelling uses pretty much the same skill set as 2D Drafting and doesn't take much to learn. Once you've got started on 3D modelling, you'll wonder why anyone bothers with 2D these days, it seems archaic.
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Post by ettingtonliam on Apr 15, 2019 9:06:37 GMT
Roger Thats probably good advice, but at my age I'm very like 2D drafting - archaic and likely to vanish in a few years---.
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Post by andyhigham on Apr 15, 2019 9:07:37 GMT
Most of my CAD use is for electrical wiring diagrams, 2D is perfectly suited to this, adding a third dimension would make the diagrams messy and harder to read
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Post by Roger on Apr 15, 2019 9:12:10 GMT
Roger Thats probably good advice, but at my age I'm very like 2D drafting - archaic and likely to vanish in a few years---. I think you'd be surprised at how easy it is if you already are familiar with 2D drafting. Everything is usually drawn as 2D anyway, all you're doing is stretching those 2D sketches in a third dimension. For most things it's as simple as that. A shaft is a sketched circle and then it's extruded as long as you want to make it. It doesn't take long to get to grips with it, there are plenty of tutorials on YouTube to show you how to get started.
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Post by Roger on Apr 15, 2019 9:14:49 GMT
Most of my CAD use is for electrical wiring diagrams, 2D is perfectly suited to this, adding a third dimension would make the diagrams messy and harder to read Fair enough, but that's not Model Engineering which is what I thought we were discussing.
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Post by cplmickey on Apr 15, 2019 11:50:46 GMT
So, I downloaded the free basic nanocad, got the email giving me my login details, but it just won't open for me. Whenever I try to sign in, it rejects me for incorrect details. Grr. Never had this problem with draftsite. Worked fine for me yesterday and I drew up a flanging plate with it last night. I assume you're entering the product code from the email as well as your user name? Then you need to get a verification code. Ian
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Post by ettingtonliam on Apr 15, 2019 13:05:39 GMT
Roger Thats probably good advice, but at my age I'm very like 2D drafting - archaic and likely to vanish in a few years---. I think you'd be surprised at how easy it is if you already are familiar with 2D drafting. Everything is usually drawn as 2D anyway, all you're doing is stretching those 2D sketches in a third dimension. For most things it's as simple as that. A shaft is a sketched circle and then it's extruded as long as you want to make it. It doesn't take long to get to grips with it, there are plenty of tutorials on YouTube to show you how to get started. The problem is that I'm not familiar with 2D drafting, not the CAD type anyway, so the question is, do I jump in the deep end with 3D, which I don't really need, or start with basic 2D?
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Post by bambuko on Apr 15, 2019 13:25:30 GMT
If you needed quick pencil sketch to do the job, would you use CAD instead? No - of course not :-)
Don't let Roger convince you that you need something you don't ... and don't underestimate the difficulty of learning what's totally new to you.
I use pencil and paper, 2D Cad, 3D CAD as appropriate and expedient for the job at hand. Each has it's advantages and it's drawbacks/limitations. Only you, can decide what's best for you!
Of course, everybody is entitled to their own opinion and I am happy for others to totally disagree with me.
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Post by Roger on Apr 15, 2019 13:27:56 GMT
I think you'd be surprised at how easy it is if you already are familiar with 2D drafting. Everything is usually drawn as 2D anyway, all you're doing is stretching those 2D sketches in a third dimension. For most things it's as simple as that. A shaft is a sketched circle and then it's extruded as long as you want to make it. It doesn't take long to get to grips with it, there are plenty of tutorials on YouTube to show you how to get started. The problem is that I'm not familiar with 2D drafting, not the CAD type anyway, so the question is, do I jump in the deep end with 3D, which I don't really need, or start with basic 2D? Personally I don't see the point in 2D drafting for 3D objects, that just doesn't make sense to me. Learning 3D is pretty much the same as learning 2D with a few extra tools. Don't be intimidated by how many features and tools you have with any CAD package, you only need a few basic ones to do most of what you need to do. You learn extra things as and when you need them. It's easy to look at the fantastic results you see and assume that the people creating them must therefore be really clever. The people creating the software are the clever ones that make the user look good, anyone can use 3D CAD with very little knowledge. Why not just download Fusion 360 and follow a few tutorials? It will cost you nothing and you may surprise yourself at how easily you can draw something. If you stick to a small subset of things and get used to the general way it works, I think you'll be making models in no time. Not only is it immensely satisfying, it's really useful for documenting what you make and creating 2D drawings of them if you really want to.
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Post by Roger on Apr 15, 2019 13:38:13 GMT
If you needed quick pencil sketch to do the job, would you use CAD instead? No - of course not :-) Don't let Roger convince you that you need something you don't ... and don't underestimate the difficulty of learning what's totally new to you. I use pencil and paper, 2D Cad, 3D CAD as appropriate and expedient for the job at hand. Each has it's advantages and it's drawbacks/limitations. Only you, can decide what's best for you! Of course, everybody is entitled to their own opinion and I am happy for others to totally disagree with me. "If you needed quick pencil sketch to do the job, would you use CAD instead? No - of course not :-)" Personally, I don't use any quick sketches for any jobs. Quick and simple jobs are the quickest and simplest to model. Once you've done it, you have a permanent record of what you've made. Nobody needs CAD, just as nobody needs a mill if they have a lathe. That doesn't mean that it isn't an extremely useful addition to the workshop. I completely agree that it's entirely up to anyone to decide what they want to use, but you have to ask yourself what you want out of it. One of life's pleasures for me is learning new skills and acquiring new tools. You often don't know how useful they are until you pick them up and use them, and then you wonder how you managed without them. The world doesn't stand still, so why not embrace the new and take advantage of what's available, especially if it's free?
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Post by Cro on Apr 15, 2019 13:53:54 GMT
I have to admit I'm with Roger on this (shock I know!). 3D CAD isn't a necessity but its a damn useful tool to have even for the simplest of task. If you are totally new and fresh to CAD I would recommend 3D as Roger has said its 2D sketches drawn out to a 3D shape and it will help you visualise your creations much better as it gives depth and scope to things.
If I have the laptop in the workshop with me I draw up some of the simplest things just to gauge what is going on in my head and make sure it will turn out as I had planned it.
A friend of mine uses a CNC mill in his home workshop; until around 18 months ago he did everything via 2D CAD, even his laser cut pattern for his 5" Duchess Semi Streamlined smokebox with the sloped front so that when rolled and formed it was perfect and all came together seamlessly, I showed him F360 and now he would never look back even when adamant that 2D was all he would be able to do being so used to it.
If you don't try, you'll never know.
Adam
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Post by atgordon on Apr 15, 2019 14:46:30 GMT
When I was involved in technical education, there was a lot of debate as to whether students should learn 2D CAD before moving on to 3D. It quickly became apparent that the students progress was much faster (and they had a better understanding of what they were drawing) using 3D CAD ... (it was also apparent that the problem was that the teachers who were uncomfortable with 3D wanted the kids to do what they had done; start on 2D!). I agree with Roger and Adam: Fusion 360 is a very comprehensive 3D package, and has some good tutorial materials available ... this Introduction from University of Warwick ain't bad, also, the Lars Christenson Youtube lessons are pretty good too (but he does assume that the user has some grasp of 3D CAD, so maybe start with the UoW stuff until comfortable and then move on to his stuff). Also, this forum has a lot of F360 users so ask questions when stuck!
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Post by ettingtonliam on Apr 15, 2019 17:02:10 GMT
Having given it all much thought, 2D conventional drawing on cartridge paper, backs of envelopes etc has served me well for over 50 years, I've got the equipment, I know how to do it, thats what I'll stick with.
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Post by Donald G on Apr 16, 2019 9:23:54 GMT
Hi Roger. I have been drawing 2D both on drawing boards and then on a computer for 40+ years and currently have a lot of my design drawings for all the various projects I have done over the years, I certainly do not want to lose those and certainly cannot print them all.
I have tried Fusion 360 and I did manage after nearly a week of evenings to produce a half decent axle box, but without a load of detail. I just cannot get my head around it yet.
I notice today that a 2019 version of Draftsight is available to download at a cost of 99 US dollars /year, so that appears to be the start of the finish as far as I am concerned. I assume that the program already downloaded will continue to run?.
Donald
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Post by Roger on Apr 16, 2019 10:14:04 GMT
Hi Roger. I have been drawing 2D both on drawing boards and then on a computer for 40+ years and currently have a lot of my design drawings for all the various projects I have done over the years, I certainly do not want to lose those and certainly cannot print them all. I have tried Fusion 360 and I did manage after nearly a week of evenings to produce a half decent axle box, but without a load of detail. I just cannot get my head around it yet. I notice today that a 2019 version of Draftsight is available to download at a cost of 99 US dollars /year, so that appears to be the start of the finish as far as I am concerned. I assume that the program already downloaded will continue to run?. Donald Hi Donald, Your problems with Fusion 360 may stem from an expectation that it will have a similar way of working as the 2D CAD you're familiar with. I switched from Smartsketch, originally branded as Imagineer, to Alibre CAD and found it to have a very similar way of creating sketches. However, Smartsketch was way ahead of its time, using contraints and parametric modelling which is now universal in 3D CAD. Many of the early 2D CAD systems were abysmal, AutoCAD being one of them, and some are just as bad today eg BobCAD. I don't know Draftsight, so I don't really know where that lies on the spectrum. So it may well be that your 2D CAD is offering a very different user experience to Fusion 360, hence the difficulty it getting to grips with how it all hangs together. Maybe modelling an axlebox as the first thing was trying to to run before you can walk? Assemblies and how the parts are contained and constrained is something I'd avoid until you're confident making simple models. Still, you only have to learn it once and then you get all of the benefits that flow from that. All modern 3D CAD works in pretty much the same way as far as I can tell, whether it's Solidworks, Alibre or Fusion360. I'd keep plugging away and sooner or later the penny will drop and it will all become clear. The major difference between 2D and 3D is that 2D is just a smart drawing board, and that's all. It has no 'understanding' of what you're modelling, they're just lines and only marginally better than paper drawings. 3D on the other hand does appreciate that you're creating a 3D object, that sketches must be closed and that geometry must be consistent throughout the model. Once you've crafted the shape you want, the software knows what it should look like from every angle, hence it's ability to create perfect 2D drawings from it. This is a fundamentally different way of thinking about what you're creating, even though drawing the sketches that make up the model may be familiar. Licensing of CAD products can be frustrating, I don't know how Draftsight do theirs. Some use dongles, some use local software dongles, and some need to contact the licencing server. I suspect that yours will continue to work unless you upgrade it. Most software companies are adopting the rental approach to guarantee a predictable and sufficient income stream, whether that's for Accountancy software or CAD. It's a fact of life I'm afraid, you probably won't be able to buy complex software products to own in the same way we used to be able to any longer.
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Post by Donald G on Apr 16, 2019 11:37:02 GMT
Hi Roger I really do appreciate the detail you have gone into replying to my post. Perhaps, as things are definitively changing within 2D drawing, I should spend my time on Fusion with very simple parts and see if I can get the hang of Fusion 360. I am sure it is an excellent program once I can crack it. I know talking to Adam at exhibitions he swears by it, and we all know the quality of the various items he has produced for us model engineers.
I have decided that I am going to try and persevere with 3D and will update you as and when I feel I have got the basics sorted.
Many thanks for your words
Donald
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Post by Roger on Apr 16, 2019 12:07:31 GMT
Hi Roger I really do appreciate the detail you have gone into replying to my post. Perhaps, as things are definitively changing within 2D drawing, I should spend my time on Fusion with very simple parts and see if I can get the hang of Fusion 360. I am sure it is an excellent program once I can crack it. I know talking to Adam at exhibitions he swears by it, and we all know the quality of the various items he has produced for us model engineers. I have decided that I am going to try and persevere with 3D and will update you as and when I feel I have got the basics sorted. Many thanks for your words Donald Hi Donald, You're most welcome, it's easy to be discouraged when you are confronted with such a huge array of features in a CAD package, it's hard to know where to start! I tend to ignore most of the icons when I start with something new and just focus on the bare essentials of what I need to know. You'll never fully get to know all of it unless you're using it professionally. YouTube is your friend, it's never been easier to get help with things like this. I've seen Fusion 360 used and watched a few videos and it's not that different to Alibre that I'm using. One day I'll probably make the switch because I'm spending too much on mine at the moment and it's hard to justify. I'm sure you will get to grips with it, you just have to put in the hours. I'm certain that it will be worth that investment in the end though.
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