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Post by ettingtonliam on Apr 27, 2019 11:13:52 GMT
If the lack of ME content can be overlooked, heres one for you full size steam chaps.
There is a report in todays Times, page 15, concerning a drone which got too close to Scotsman on 12th April this year, between Farnborough and Woking, while filming it. Footage was put on local news, but later taken down after Netwrok Rail complained.
At the end of the report is a paragraph Flying Scotsman was built in 1923 for the London and North Eastern Railway. It reached 100mph on a special run in 1934 the first locomotive in the UK to record that speed
Now I always believed that City of Truro achieved that speed around the early years of the 20th century, but possibly theres some doubt about that being an 'official' record.
I can't believe that it took until 1934 for the next 100mph run. Comments please?
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Apr 27, 2019 14:30:05 GMT
My understanding is that "City of Truro" reached 100 mph, as recorded by numerous passengers on the train, but there was no official timekeeper. So although many people believe that it was the first engine to reach that milestone, it could not be officially recorded as such.
The "Flying Scotsman" run had officials aboard to record the speed - hence it has the official record.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 19:30:35 GMT
As Steve said, without the proper method to time it it's not official. FS was pulling the dynocar for her authenticated run and that's that. IIRC there was also sn American loco that claimed to have reached 100mph...I believe this was even earlier than CoT
Pete
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,900
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Post by jma1009 on Apr 27, 2019 22:51:49 GMT
Hi Richard,
Sometimes 'cans of worms' are best left with the lid on and not re-opened!
The 'City of Truro' record, and that claimed by the LMS in June 1937 on the 'Coronation Scot' with Riddles on the footplate when it approached Crewe too fast, and even Mallard's record have been poured over by experts, and have been poured over again in some considerable detail in the last few years using computers.
For what it is worth, Charles Rous-Marten was on 'City of Truro' on 9th May 1904 and suggested 102.3mph in a later article, though you can piece together the actual speed he claimed from the 2 original articles in The Engineer, and Railway Magazine. The GWR suppressed the account for many years principally because of feared adverse publicity, which became subsequently a good move in the light of the Salisbury disaster soon afterwards.
(The GWR official suppression of news of the run was rather upset by a 'post office sortman' also timing the run on the train who got the speed published in the next day's local papers!)
O S Nock reviewed the Railway Magazine articles and whilst he could not corroborate Rous-Marten's 102.3mph, he nevertheless concluded City of Truro 'topped' 100mph. I have read the original 'The Engineer' article which Nock seems not to have known about, inexplicably.
Collett (before he was CME of the GWR) in May 1906 had a trial trip on 'Lady of Lyons' (GWR Saint) and this also went over 100mph as a light engine (this feat was also suppressed for many years by the GWR).
Then much later Flying Scotsman did it's supposed 100mph run. 'Papyrus' seems to be regarded as the first properly authenticated 100mph dash.
The dynamometer roll for 'Mallard' survives and shows (according to recent analysis) a very brief 'spike' (that is difficult to account for) of the record speed.
When the 114mph LMS record was claimed in 1937 both Cecil J Allen and O S Nock were shocked, as their timekeeping records (having been invited on the train, and latterly thrown about on the approach to Crewe) did not substantiate this speed!
Cheers,
Julian
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
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Post by Tony K on Apr 28, 2019 8:47:32 GMT
Hi Richard, Sometimes 'cans of worms' are best left with the lid on and not re-opened! ..................... Cheers, Julian Never said a truer word Julian. However, thank you for your account, which I found interesting. The corridor tender is a bit over-egged for my liking. I realise it was a marketing thing and gave an advantage and the ability to say "non-stop" but on a journey of 6hours+, a stop of 3mins at Newcastle to change crews is neither here nor there. That said, I like them. The myth of non-stop carried on with the production Deltics - initial designs with doors in the ends to allow access to change crews. Then Tom-the-cabin-boy said "Why not let them sit in the rear cab of the loco" and common sense prevailed. Like I said, I do like them - don't know why! I find it disappointing "Mallard" is preserved without one. Think how good it would be for children to try going through it from a coach when in the NRM. That said, I did get to do it at Peterborough station in 1963. My only claim to fame really - apart from turning down the opportunity to see the Beatles live at Peterborough Embassy at about the same time.
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,906
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Post by JonL on Apr 28, 2019 11:09:05 GMT
I find it interesting that a land speed record for a road vehicle has to be done in both directions within a certain time for it to count (presumably to take into account gradients and wind). When Mallard (a locomotive I adored as a child, posters on the wall and everything) and others hit their record speeds down Stoke Bank it does make me wonder if you can claim it! Also Mallard did so with the stench of aniseed signalling a mechanical failure, so it was carried out at the detriment of the locomotive. Maybe it should have survived the attempt in a useable manner to count. After all people say that the arrival of the jet age made possible the speed of sound being exceeded in an aircraft, but I suspect it happened long before then in piston engined fighters during the war. That they didn't survive the dive to report the event doesn't make a difference... they broke the sound barrier...
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Post by silverfox on Apr 28, 2019 12:05:15 GMT
Tony
When Mallard was built it was with a non corridor tender. So the NRM has it right.
I have managed to do the the tender walk on both 60009 when it was overlaying in old coalyard at Haymarket station back in the early 80's and 60010 before the museum at Delton was spruced up
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
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Post by Tony K on Apr 28, 2019 12:51:28 GMT
Tony When Mallard was built it was with a non corridor tender. So the NRM has it right. I have managed to do the the tender walk on both 60009 when it was overlaying in old coalyard at Haymarket station back in the early 80's and 60010 before the museum at Delton was spruced up Agree they have it right - because they preserved it in "original" condition. They could have preserved it to reflect its condition for most of its working life - with a corridor tender and generated more fun. However, I should be grateful, and am, someone preserved it at all I did get to do a driving course with the Scotsman in 1991, something which is unlikely to be on offer again? P.S. I know you have the other "Silver Fox" plate under your bench - I'm coming to make an offer!
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Post by silverfox on Apr 28, 2019 19:02:30 GMT
Tony
You can have it for £700.00
That should be enough for me to get a replacement and cover the carriage
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Midland
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Post by Midland on Apr 28, 2019 20:19:25 GMT
Hi All I do love this Truro/ Scotsman rivalry. The GW boys make the claim backed up by God and a few others, the Great Northern Clan support a lovely little pacific, and what do we do now, ha ha we won. I can tell you one fact, climbing through Gresley's little alley way at 70 mph is an experience done best once. Tenders sloshing water around on rough track is not the same as a dining car but a hell worthwhile to ride the cab for an afternoon and to play with those levers and handles. Once dark the real reason for slave labour was clear, Les told me to shovel that coal dust in the tender up the spout and we did put about a ton of it out the top all over Indiana! Many years ago but what fun!! D Yes Pete, Gresley did have a way of making good looking locos, and they worked!
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