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Post by delaplume on May 2, 2019 21:17:29 GMT
A fellow Club member has just bought a commercially - made, 5 inch gauge, live steam model of a BR Standard 2-6-4 tank engine........The following question is of a technical nature so the manufacturer's name etc. does not need to be brought into play.....
In the "Tech. Specs" it says that the cylinder block is Iron and fitted with a Bronze liner ..........so what's the thinking behind that then ??
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on May 2, 2019 22:12:33 GMT
I don’t know the thinking but one of our lads has just received one as well. He mentioned this same thing about bronze liners....I’ll see if he knows any more.
Cheers Don
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 22:17:31 GMT
There has beem a lot of chat about this loco on some of the ME Facebook pages. One person has actually bought one and has set up a page to cover his discoveries with this model. Going by what he's posted so far I wonder how much he is now regretting the purchase? The quality is pretty bad, IMHO far worse than Winson/Modelworks in the past.
Can't help re your question Alan other than to say that if this is a problem it pales to insignificance when compared to other issues
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 22:20:08 GMT
Perhaps the piston fit was so bad they were forced to line it?... trust me when I say this is very possible considering the amount of play on other parts...you wouldn't believe had bad it is without seeing it for yourself
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,437
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Post by dscott on May 2, 2019 22:57:13 GMT
I have some superb examples of Cylinders that it is a shame to cover them up with a matching Crank axle!! Others I have taken off a failed project Simplex where the cylinder was out to size but still on roughing cut (If you could call it that?) These models may follow the usual Chinese story of the first batch being superb!!! The second batch looks good but there are build issues!! The third delivery possibly of a different model is beginning to show cracks in everything!!!
The Chinese are capable of building superb stuff but for what is left out of £8,000 for good quality materials... Wages for the workers... And bear in mind that from Doug via the Steam Workshop, you are looking at at least £7,500 for materials including boiler kit!!
David and Lily.
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
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Post by uuu on May 3, 2019 6:37:45 GMT
Idea A: Perhaps they wanted all bronze, but found it cheaper to do the combination.
Idea B: They thought customers would be put off iron because of rust.
Wilf
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Post by gwr14xx on May 3, 2019 7:05:35 GMT
As a comment to Delaplume's original question - back in 2012, I bought a Winson 14XX that had reputedly been steamed just once (in 2000, for it's steam test) and then put on display. The outcome was, that when I did steam it, the rust that had formed in the bores just ate the piston 'O' rings. Honing the bores made it even worse - I guess the honing just sharpened the edges of the rust marks! I was worried that boring the cylinders oversize to get under the rusting may have resulted in breaking into the ports - so decided to bore and sleeve the cylinders with thin wall stainless steel liners. The pistons still have the original spec 'O' rings and the loco is still running well after 6 years of use - I just have to make sure I don't skimp on the oiling!
Regards, Eddie.
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Post by ettingtonliam on May 3, 2019 7:07:51 GMT
Well, see Miken's latest posting about his wonderful Webb Compound now he has steamed it for the same time, and is now expressing some regrets about having made his cylinder liners out of cast iron----.
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Post by delaplume on May 3, 2019 8:40:54 GMT
Hello everyone and many thanks for those informative replies.....
Hi Eddie, At about the same time one of the lads at Rugeley had bought a 14xx when word on the grapevine came through about a similar loco having problems down at Southampton....Being about 3rd or 4th hand the detail was lacking .... so that's what it was all about then ?? I'll pass on your mods if that's ok ??...I'm sure he'll be most interested....
With regards to the liners}---------- A quick look at the other models supplied recently shows them all to have this iron cylinder with bronze liner idea so it must have been some sort of a "Engineering policy" decision so to speak ??......Maybe it's to do with O-ring performance as mentioned ??
Personally I prefer the traditional all-iron set up allied to a reliable and adjustable oiling system feeding atomised oil droplets into the centre of the earliest part of the dry steam supply pipe....For many years I ran a 5"g Parallel Boilered Scot modified by me to that set-up with no lube-related probs at all...
Let's hope that this current tranche of ready-to-run models will turn out to be ok in the end ??.........As with ideas behind the now defunct Model Works etc. it might help encourage newcomers into the hobby , and that has to be a good thing ultimately...
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dave f
Active Member
Must focus on the Princess, resist temptation to tinker with new toy...
Posts: 45
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Post by dave f on May 3, 2019 9:32:30 GMT
For anyone that's interested and doesn't know about it, Keith Appleton did an interesting youtube video series called "Modifying a 5 Inch 14xx Steam Locomotive."
The 14xx is basically made by the same Chinese manufacturer used to create the above products.
You may as well notice that there are some currently available on The Steam Workshop website. Interesting description within their advert.
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Post by gwr14xx on May 3, 2019 10:55:14 GMT
The only other mods I made to my engine, were to fit a petticoat pipe to the chimney, and remake the slide valves so that they were deep enough that they could not fall away from the port face when the regulator was shut. It's interesting that a Rugeley member bought a 14XX at about the same time - I went to a reputable dealer (better not name names!) for mine - he had 2 available, and I was left to make the choice (no pressure selling) - did the Rugeley member buy the other one?. I had already heard the tales of woe regarding Winson Locos, but once the teething troubles were sorted, the engine ran well - last year, I attended a 50th anniversary event at another track and got persuaded to haul the committee round for some publicity shots, and the little 14XX easily managed 4 laps with a load of 6 adults - I was well pleased! Eddie.
P.S. I was so happy with the 14XX that I jumped in with both feet and bought a Winson 9F, and again tweaked that until it ran well and reliably. I found the main problem with the larger Winsons is the restricted steam passages - the regulator valve is the same as the 14XX!! and the blast nozzle even smaller than the 14's.
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Post by coniston on May 3, 2019 12:54:10 GMT
I'm thinking the same as others that it is to alleviate the possible issue of rusting in the bores after steaming, particularly as these models are probably aimed at non model engineering types who may not appreciate the importance of proper disposal of locomotives after running. I had a Manor for some years and never had any issues with rusting bores, just down to looking after it properly. As Dave f mentions Steamworkshop have 2 class 4s and a Jubilee for sale, read their description to see it is not a case of just unpacking and running. Also of more interest is their blog on the prototype Jubilee rebuild in the 'rebuilds' section.
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Post by andyhigham on May 3, 2019 20:31:10 GMT
In an unsuperheated engine cast iron piston/rings/cylinder requires very little lubrication, if the oil pump fails it will do no significant damage. An interesting thing to note, the Villiers WX11 2 stroke stationary engine was made with either aluminium or cast iron piston. The alloy piston requires 16:1 oil ratio but the cast iron piston only requires 32:1
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