Time to build

[Jono]

Im curious how many hours are put in to building a miniature steam engine. There must be model engineers out there who have recorded the time they spent to complete an engine. I would like to build one myself. Would I be far off the mark to think it would take 1000 hours to complete a simple tank engine

[uuu]

I'm sure it can be done in 1000 hours. The late John de Bank of IWMES built 19 locos: I suppose he got it down to a lower figure. However for me - I have to add in all the mistakes, blind alleys, wrong turns, time spent fettling workshop machinery instead of making something, time spent learning how to draw in CAD etc, etc, so I'll end up with a figure much higher.


But if it's the journey that's interesting, rather than the arrival, the more time spent, the better.

Wilf

[silverfox]

IIRC Ken Edge of the Peterborough club built a 5in gauge Royal Scot in 6 months!! back in the mid 70's following an A3

If any of you have the book 'how to drive a model steam engine' (or something like that) He and the Loco are pictured across two of the frontispiece pages

As Ken worked at Brotherhoods some of the more knowledgeable members of the club, were convinced that a lot of the loco was 'Apprentice exam work' as he was very high up in their engineering dept

His A3 was up for sale several years ago. For the life of me i cannot remember what he named it but Sceptre keeps cropping up

He had a noticeboard outside his workshop saying Werrington Plant

[ettingtonliam]

Hours? I've no idea. My project times tend to be measured in years, and I need the fingers of both hands to count them. Toes as well sometimes.

[don9f]

I built my Warnett 9F, including the boiler in the 1980’s when I lived alone and could spend many hours a week on it. I recorded most of the activities in a diary over the 5 years it took and amassed over 3100 hours on it. Hopefully that will give you some idea about building your tank engine.

I can’t imagine me doing that sort of thing today.

Cheers Don

[cplmickey]

Definitely in the 1000s of hours although I've never kept tabs on how long I've spent. And it doesn't help having several jobs on the go at any one time. But as Wilf says, it's the journey that's intersting and I just enjoy making stuff. Ian

[David]

I'd say even the best builders need more than 1000 hours but a couple of guys at our club put things out at an extraordinary rate. They're dedicated and work on their projects most days of the week. Shawki is a prolific builder too.

I think the bigger variance is in how much you enjoy the process OR can devote to it. If you don't enjoy it or have a busy life you'll spend the same hours but take many more years, obv.

The standards you set yourself matter too of course but still probably not as much as the time you can devote to it regularly. Choice of model may have an effect - one with good plans and plenty of parts available from somewhere like ME Laser can get you off to a flying start and stop quite so much remedial work when you've got trapped by a bad drawing. Having only tried to build one loco, which is not one of the trade's well known designs, I'm talking out of my backside here.

[Jo]

There are lots of variables here:

• Skill/Experience of the builder.
• Machine tools/hand tool availability.
• Use of automated technology: e.g. CNC, Laser cut etc.
• Desired level of detail in the finish.
• Build or buy in a boiler
• Casting availability
• Use of off the shelf bits

If you brought a fully machined kit from the likes of Polly then if you are experienced, you may put it together in a surprisingly short time.

Jo

[flyingfox]

Greetings,
I have built quite a number of locomotives, and the only one that I kept a detailed log of times was the second locomotive I built, A Martin Evans "Jubliee" 2-6-4 LMS tank in 3.5 in gauge.
I started the loco on the 28 July 1980. and it passed its steam test, and first ran on 6th August 1981. It ran well from the off, has performed well in 2 IMLECS, and badly in one. I had help building the boiler. I still have it, but it is awaiting a new superheater. The bunker is (still) awaiting completion, as is the top feed cover.

Regards
Brian Baker

[Geoff]

When I started my Maid of Kent I decided to keep an accurate record of workshop time. I estimated each component time (Plan Hrs) in the table below and had a much more detailed sheet where each component was broken down in much more detail. Some things ended up taking much longer to do whilst some were surprisingly quick.
Now, bear in mind that this was my first effort, and when I started I didn't know the difference between a BA and Whitworth thread. My lathe is a 70 year old Granville and many things had to be re-made. I spent a huge amount of tme just trying to work out how to do things and how to hold them.

Big surprises were:
- The ease with which the boiler came together
- The Smokebox (particularly the "S" shaped blast pipe and the saddle casting) took ages
- The steam brake took forever was very fiddly and still doesn't work properly
- The gear and motion took a long time ... fiddly with inside cylinders
- The axle pump was drive was far from satisfactory and I have now just disconnected it altogether .... waste of time
- The Cab took me much longer to make .... particularly the window frames

Anyway, my 2,100 estimate ended up closer to 2,400 hours. I think an experienced person would have spent about 1,600 hours.

Of course, keeping my spreadsheet up to date and other things planning activities outside of the workshop are not included in these numbers!
Overall it took me 7 years to build

Hope this helps!
Cheers
Geoff


COMPONENT PLAN HRS REVISED PLAN HRS
Bogie 40 28.5
Boiler 240 182.6
Boiler Fit 40 40.0
Boiler Bushes 30.3
Brake 65 90.0
Buffer 35 60.0
Cab 50 89.6
Chest 80 102.6
Crank 40 32.0
Cylinder 70 88.8
Dome 50 27.4
Fittings 40 125.0
Frame 75 93.7
Gear 100 148.8
Lubricator - 32.0
Motion 40 111.7
Other 20 50.0
Pump 40 56.1
Paint 250 85.9
Paint Tender 150 42.2
Platework - 44.5
Piping - 51.0
Regulator - 25.8
Reverser - 35.9
Re-Work - 130.5
Running Boards 60 55.1
Sandboxes - 8.7
Smokebox 75 119.6
Tender Frame 90 88.0
Tender Body 80 68.0
Tender Brake 40 4.0
Tender Tank 75 51.5
Tender Wheels 35 53.0
Test 40 15.0
Wheels 180 130.6
TOTAL 2,100 2,398

[builder01]

How long will it take? What a great question. I consider a Super Simplex to be a fairly straight forward, not very detailed, very basic 0-6-0 tank engine. I started making the frames for my Simplex in June of 2015. The chassis first ran on compressed air in February of 2016. So, about 9 months to get it running on air, or about 540 hours. It was in May of 2017 that the locomotive was officially steam certified and operating with it's own boiler. (I built my own boiler). About 23 months, or, about 1400 hours from start, to operating on it's own boiler. It took about another 600 hours to do the plate work and boiler jacket, and painting and lining. No laser parts for the plate work. I did my own lettering and lining. Nothing fancy as you can see here. The photos below represent about 2000 to 2500 hours of work and there are still a few things to finish. It runs very well and is fun to operate. As far as construction time is concerned, perhaps I am just slow!

DSCN1859 - cropped & added by Builder16, on Flickr

[Jono]

Thanks for all the replies. Some are very detailed and all are interesting. If a typical build time is 3000 hours I bet there is someone out there who has spent 6000 hours building a very intricate and detailed model steam engine

[steamer5]

Hi Scroggin,
IF you figured in the research time, procrastination….my wife tells me I must stop doing this, I told her I'd start tomorrow.....then having to learn new skill, ie CAD along with any others skills that you don't have, as well as build time...( do we count redoing stuff more than once?) then 6000 hrs is likely short! I know for me its fast looking like it!

Cheers Kerrin

[Deleted]

May 14, 2019 11:39:22 GMT Jono said:

Thanks for all the replies. Some are very detailed and all are interesting. If a typical build time is 3000 hours I bet there is someone out there who has spent 6000 hours building a very intricate and detailed model steam engine

hmm.. I bet I'm well over 6000, that's only 250 days, ok, no one does 24 hour days but I do spend many long days working on my model...and I still have an awful long way to go...

Pete

[Roger]

May 14, 2019 12:44:57 GMT @greenglade said:

May 14, 2019 11:39:22 GMT Jono said:

Thanks for all the replies. Some are very detailed and all are interesting. If a typical build time is 3000 hours I bet there is someone out there who has spent 6000 hours building a very intricate and detailed model steam engine

hmm.. I bet I'm well over 6000, that's only 250 days, ok, no one does 24 hour days but I do spend many long days working on my model...and I still have an awful long way to go...

Pete

Me too, I'm guessing 5 years and averaging 3-4 hours every day...

As soon as you go 'off piste' and start deviating from the drawings, that's where the time goes. Multiply any times by a factor of 3-4 each time you decide to make something to Works Drawings or photos.

[suctionhose]

Hello,
A lot depends on personal productivity.
Assuming you have your workshop and techniques already established (be it manual or cnc) and can dedicate regular and productive time, something like Sweet Pea would take a year or two.

Simplex is not simple. It has all the things a more complex loco has except a bogie or tender. (Ideally, it still needs a driving truck with water and coal)

Personally, I find the biggest challenge these days is getting uninterupted blocks of time. Machining cylinders, driving children and cooking dinner all at the same time doesn't work very well!

I aim for 10 to 12 hrs a week. Hopefully in one or two blocks. I choose complicated prototypes these days and do own research and design. I'm expecting 4000 to 5000 hrs per model which is 7 or eight years of shed time. R & D happens at night or whenever time allows - the next step on the engine is never far from my thoughts.

Blindly following a proven design saves a lot of time. (Doing so never appealed to me) As Roger says, doing own design along the way adds significantly to the nature of the project both in time and satisfaction with the result.

Important to have a clear idea of what you want to achieve right from the start and resource it appropriately.

Countless people commence Grand Endeavours with not the slightest chance of finishing in the span of a human lifetime. Still, if they accept that and enjoy the journey for as long as it lasts... why not?

[Roger]

Just another thought. Make sure you really want to build what you've chosen, because things will go wrong and you will sometimes have to dig deep to regroup and continue the battle. It would appear that most builders start another project before finishing the last, presumably when the honeymoon period of a new build is over, or something goes wrong. I wonder how many unfinished projects are sitting under the bench for every one finished?

Starting a new project in favour of resolving the problems on the current one probably means the first will never be finished, and the same will most likely happen to the new one too when times get difficult.

Just my opinion of course, I'm sure there are exceptions.

[Neale]

I'm with Roger on this. Probably the most important single factor in choosing a model to build is choosing one that you really want to build. Pretty much everything else comes second to that. A lot of people advise starting with a "simple" loco, designed for beginners. But will you actually want it, once it's built? You are going to be spending years and quite a few thousand hours on this. Motivation only comes from wanting to own and run the end result! Yes, building is fun, and I enjoy the challenges that are thrown up at each stage. Personally, I take each of these challenges as an achievement in itself. Satisfaction comes from ticking them off as you do them. I hit a major milestone with my current build earlier today - I took the tender chassis down to the club track and pushed it round, to check clearances on tight bends, etc. But the pleasure of actually reaching the point at which I could do that is a big factor in getting me out to the workshop to carry on. So, choose something that will be really satisfying once finished (although stopping short of four cylinders, etc, might be sensible...), accept that it will take a long time to complete, and think of it as a series of individual steps, each of which is an achievement in itself. Then go for it.

[terrier060]

It's a funny old world - and what an interesting question! I was once an academic in University where we never thought of recording hours. Then I worked for a civil engineering company where every second of the day had to be accounted for. What a shock I got!

So when I started on the boiler of my Terriers I recorded the hours I spent daily and you may find it interesting. In the end it comes down to the level of detail you intend to work to, which can easily double or treble the time spent. This does not include time spent preparing the drawings from full-size.

These are for a pair of locos so the setup time is standard but extra time is taken for the pair.

Item Hours
Week 1 61 hours total
Boiler support brackets 4
Crown stays 6
Safety valve brackets and part-machined saddle 6
Finishing safety valve brackets - Loco No 1 4
Making former, annealing and bending crown stays 6
Machining crown stays - loco 1 7
Finished loco 1 boiler ready for brazing 10
Machining crown stays - loco 2, fitted firebox brackets 8
Fitted tubes and smokebox tubeplate - boiler No 2 5
Fitted clack bushings and finished safety valve brackets 5

Week 2 64 hours total
Machined warning bells in naval brass (in cab) 5
Made duplex and boiler pressure gauges (locos 1 and 2) 9
Made Westinghouse steam brake valves 16
Tested valves to 100psi 3
Made water gauges 17
Taper cocks for blowdown valves 9
Artwork for Duplex gauges 5

Week 3 54 hours
Artwork boiler pressure gauges 4
Fitted artwork to gauge bodies 1
Finished water gauge bodies 5
Finished water gauges with blowdown valves 9
Made flanges for dome fitting 3
Upper domes and part of whistles 12
Finished whistles 14
Made large whistle for between frames 6

Week 4 29 hours
Hand brake body 7
Hand brake parts 6
Pinned and hard-soldered parts of brake body No 1 8
Pinned and hard-soldered parts of brake body No 2 5
Finished brake levers 1 and 2 3

Week 5 38 hours
Firebox doors 11
Firebox trays 13
Firebox damper handles 14

Week 6 56 hours
Finished firebox doors and damper handle parts 12
Lifting levers 7
Reversing lever shafts 1 and 2 19
Reversing lever latches and oilways 7
Latch handles 11