Horns Castings

[drumkilbo]

Hi All,
As I'm getting on with frames etc for a 5" gauge 7F 2-8-0 I'm wondering about the horns as there are no castings available so I'm thinking of fabricating. Basically maching from solid bar and brazing the webbing bits on. Could this be done with BMS for the horns and brass for the axleboxes or does it have to be gunmetal for the horns and CI for axleboxes ?
Or, are there any 5" locos that have similar horns ? Having looked at Reeves prices for horns for different locos and adjusting the price for different numbers of wheels, the horns must be all different.
Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Ian.

[drjohn]

Anything on anything for axleboxes and horns Ian. There is no great movement and wear - Steel on steel, or non ferrous whatever, they only go up and down a wee bit and toggle a bit with side to side roll.

DJ

[drumkilbo]

Thanks for that, DJ

Ian.

[waggy]

Ian,
If you're building a fine scale award winner, you will have to make them as close to prototype as possible.
If not, use angle iron squared off in the lathe or on the mill. Braize, weld or silver solder the bottom section for securing the hornkeep on before you square them up. The webs are for good looks only in our scales, if you can't see them, why bother?
My opinion only, but you could be making a lot of unnecessary work for yourself.

Waggy.

[russell]

Easier still, just rivet some BMS flats in place like this:


Russell

[drumkilbo]

I take your point Waggy. No it won't be fine scale award winning but good looks are important and you can see the horns through between the boiler and the frames of a lot of locos, at least with the leading wheels.
Cheers,

Ian.

[drumkilbo]

And thanks for that Russell, the whole horns thing seems to be a lot simpler than I thought.

Ian.

[mutley]

or make a pattern and get some cast.

Andy

[drumkilbo]

That's what I'm getting done, Andy. Thanks for all your suggestions guys, that's what this forum is all about.

Cheers,

Ian.

[silverfox]

Drumkilbo,
Are you doing a large or small boiler version?

[drumkilbo]

Hi Silverfox,
It's the small boiler version.
Paul1979 mentioned someone doing a large boiler version, is that you ?

Ian.

[silverfox]

No, i am battling with a 5in B17. Ivan Hurst is the man

[steam4ian]

G'day Ian

Regarding the horns look at Ace's postings in "G1 Green Arrow Locomotive on the move" down in the G1 section. He is machining his own horn blocks and they seem quite simple

Regards
Nuther Ian

[drjohn]

Hi both Ians - having bought horn castings for the tender for the Black 5 at GREAT expense, I then saw Ace's post. There seems to be more work involved in cleaning up sand castings (none of your lost wax stuff ) than machining from raw stock like Ace has done.

DJ

[drumkilbo]

Thanks Ian and DJ.
Silverfox, who designed the B17,I'm not familiar with it at all, and are there castings for it or not really ?

Ian.

[abby]

Assuming you machined the horns for black five from solid brass , I can't find a price for gun-metal or pb , each horn will need a piece of 1" square material, 2 inches long , the cheapest price I can find with a quick search is MACC at around £20 for 24" , half of Reeves price by the way.
Call it a quid per inch so each pair of horns is £4 for material , now machine them , or fabricate if you prefer but however you make them castings at around £12 per pair has to be the cheapest option.

[drjohn]

Nah Abby - being a canny Scot, I would cut the square section longitudinally into two triangles thereby getting twice as many horns ;D But then again, having bought castings I canna waste the wee beasties!

DJ

[dinmoremanor]

I may well be wrong here but I am quite sure that the axle boxes of the 7F's were the same as per the 4F's and was a known weak point. Would horn castings for a 4F or even a Black 5 be close enough?

[silverfox]

Drumkilbo

The LNER B17 was a 4-6-0 used on GE and GC lines. Designed by Sir Nigel Grsley in full size ( there is a group building two of the one with each type of tender, the GS LNER or the smaller GE tender.
The 5In version is done by M Breeze of Peterborough, who may still have some castings.

[drumkilbo]

Thanks for that Silverfox and Dinmore manor. I googled the B17, it is a very good looking loco, I didn't know who had designed the model tho'.
The4fs and 7fs were notorious on the S&D for axlebox problems mainly because they were used at busy times for passenger trains and continuous hard running instead of the sedate freights they were designed for, I don't know about other areas. I've had a go at doing the horns for the pony truck [ I'm getting Abby to cast the main horns, but I'll make the tender horns by this method ]This is the pair of horns milled out of 3/8" square with the webs a tight fit on the horns and then once they're soldered all the excess is sawn and filed off. Now that whole exercise probably isn't very impressive, but, the fact that you can see the actual pics is a huge leap forward for me !!! ;D ;D