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Post by Boadicea on Nov 22, 2012 9:16:25 GMT
...You can back fill the existing empty cartridge by opening the red only butane button, then remove the burner tip, get yourself a can of butane gas lighter refill for £1.00 and back fill the cartridge through the nozzle...... Good luck! Like stevew said over a year ago. I think, I am over 60, and do not have enough time left to waste on this kind of thing. I would kick it over the horizon and buy something else, with a refill of course. I bet even DJ could get one. IMHO as always.
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Post by modeng2000 on Nov 22, 2012 9:20:59 GMT
Akis, Now that is a bit of lateral thinking, well done!!! It seems such an obvious solution that I'm surprised it has not come up before. Thanks for posting.
John
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Post by mosstin on Jan 31, 2013 21:35:32 GMT
Sorry for not updating earlier and disappointing Myford Matt in that I've not blown myself up. Besides which the company I work for wouldn't allow it ;D One thing I have found is that the whip cream chargers (Nitrous oxide) which are painted are much more prone to leak after fitting to the torch. I would be interest to know if anyone else as noticed this problem. I had tried filling the butane cylinder via the burner tip but found the total transfer weight to be less than half a gram that is without using coolant on the tube and cylinder to lower the vapour pressure and hence the back pressure. The original gas weight is approximately 6.5g and refilling was achievable using liquid nitrogen but this isn't a practical solution except in a laboratory. The solution I settled on was fitting a fill valve used on an Airsoft magazine to the butane cylinder. I selected this valve because it is short enough to fit into the cylinder and the design of the seal lends itself to fitting into a tube. Similar to the valve in the link below; www.airsoftworld.net/kwa-ksc-magazine-charging-valve-filler-valve.htmlUsing a ¼” ID tube I formed a sealing lip by using a 5.5mm drill deep enough to fit the top of the valve and the o-ring, tap the tube with a M5 tap. After fitting the valve to the tube I drilled a hole into the empty cylinder with a ¼” drill and cut the tube to length. Then I soldered the tube to the cylinder using zinc chloride as the flux, this is available from most model shops for soldering photo etched parts. Finally I refit the modified cylinder to the torch, remembering to unscrew the red control several turns before fitting to prevent damage to the pin, close the red valve and fill the cylinder. On average I get about a refill of 4g without cooling. I can post pictures of the parts if helpful?
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Post by modeng2000 on Feb 1, 2013 6:39:58 GMT
A picture or two would be good to see please Mosstin.
Would removing the paint from around the neck of the nitrous oxide cylinder perhaps give a better seal? I am still using Microflame cylinders so have no experience of this yet!
John
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Myford Matt
Statesman
There are two ways to run a railway, the Great Western way, and the wrong way.
Posts: 621
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Post by Myford Matt on Feb 1, 2013 17:58:16 GMT
Very disappointed Congrats on your persistence and success. A good set of pictures would be really appreciated. Cheers MM
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Post by mosstin on Feb 5, 2013 21:28:04 GMT
Yes John, good point. gave the brain the day off. Easier for me to order up another box of cylinders. Hope these help; Sorry, struggling to attach all the pictures. Revisit the idea of filling the cylinder through the burner pipe. If the torch was placed in the freezer (Typ. -18 C) for a while that should be more than cold enough to stop the butane boiling (B.P -1 C). Attachments:
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Post by mosstin on Feb 5, 2013 21:37:07 GMT
This pic shows the butane cylinder with 1/4" hole, also the tube insert and filler valve. No.2; Attachments:
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Post by mosstin on Feb 5, 2013 21:47:09 GMT
This is the insert tube with the sealing lip and the M5 thread. The lip was drilled to a depth of 2mm with a 5.5mm drill. I can't remember the thread pitch but I will post soon. No.2 Attachments:
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Post by mosstin on Feb 5, 2013 22:05:12 GMT
All the parts roughly assembled. No.3 Attachments:
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Post by mosstin on Feb 5, 2013 22:29:05 GMT
Cylinder with all the parts assembled prior to soldering, obviously remove the valve before soldering. I finally made the insert tube from stainless steel using phosphoric acid as the flux, this also worked well on the butane cylinder. I left the tube slightly proud so the solder had a larger surface area to make the joint stronger. When cool carefully fit a M5 screw into the tube, to act as a seal, and wash the acid of the piece. When dry remove the screw and fit the valve. Fit to the torch and fit the cylinder with standard lighter butane and check for leaks. Good luck. If your not familiar with using phosphoric acid, please read the MSDS first and follow the safety instructions, especially the use of PPE. No.4 Attachments:
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Post by modeng2000 on Feb 6, 2013 7:42:20 GMT
Mosstin, many thanks for posting the pictures. Thanks for persevering! All comes clear now and this seems a simple way of overcoming the problem of the supply of butane cylinders.
I just wonder about the use of solder to fix the valve to the cylinder from a safety point of view. Did you use any particular solder such as Comsol and have you considered using silver solder?
John
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Post by mrsnakeman on Aug 5, 2014 12:14:30 GMT
Reviving an old thread: I also have the Microflame model nr. 1000 and have had great problems with fuel supply. N2O tubes as used in whipped cream dispensers solved the oxygen problem but the big problem has been acquireing the torch butane tube. Forget it, none to be had, as far as I can find BUT you can refill your Bu tube using the torch and a Bu cigarette lighter gas refill tube. You will need to modify a little bit but it is worth it. On the tip of the nozzle of the gas refill Bu tube take a 1,6mm drill and drill app. 4mm into the tip of the nozzle. Work a flame tip (1.65mm. dia) into the nozzle while holding the nozzle from being depressed into the Bu tube with a small pair of plyers or tongs or some similar tool. This will allow the flame tip to be stabilized in the nozzle when filling. Mount the flame tip and bu tube onto the torch. Torch under, Bu tube on top and upside down. It is important that the tip/nozzle junction is well supported when filling so as to not allow the nozzle to be bent under the charging pressure. There will be some gas leakage at the nozzle/tip junction, especially when the torch Bu tub is full, so refill only in a well ventilated, flame free environment (preferably outdoors). This can be done alone (I use a vise to hold the torch) but is much easier to do if there are two of you. Good luck.
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Post by alberto on Apr 21, 2019 1:04:07 GMT
Hi. My mame Is Alberto from México. Muy father dead 10 years ago and he give to me many rare things, i have some cylinders butane AND microx Archer for mini torch. I no have the torch. I read some of you have the torch but not the cylinders. What can we do? Today Is April 2019. Some of you Is alive Yet? Best regards.
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Post by badmodofinga on Jul 29, 2019 14:29:20 GMT
Hi. My mame Is Alberto from México. Muy father dead 10 years ago and he give to me many rare things, i have some cylinders butane AND microx Archer for mini torch. I no have the torch. I read some of you have the torch but not the cylinders. What can we do? Today Is April 2019. Some of you Is alive Yet? Best regards. Hi Alberto, Do you still have the micronox & butane? Are you able to take pictures? I'd be interested in acquiring them! Eric
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jul 29, 2019 15:00:50 GMT
Eric You do know Alberto is in Mexico don't you, and sending gas cannisters by international post isn't easy, if allowed at all?
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Post by 92220 on Jul 29, 2019 17:52:52 GMT
Gas canisters cannot be sent by post. They have to be carried by a licenced carrier and could only come to UK by sea. The contents of the parcel would have to be declared for customs and because they can see it is a gas cylinder, a special insurance has to be taken out in case the gas canister explodes on the ship and it catches fire. I found this out when I had to take out the special insurance when I sent a shipment of Phoenix Paints, and aerosols, to Australia.
Bob.
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Post by hostile on Feb 29, 2020 9:32:11 GMT
Cylinder with all the parts assembled prior to soldering, obviously remove the valve before soldering. I finally made the insert tube from stainless steel using phosphoric acid as the flux, this also worked well on the butane cylinder. I left the tube slightly proud so the solder had a larger surface area to make the joint stronger. When cool carefully fit a M5 screw into the tube, to act as a seal, and wash the acid of the piece. When dry remove the screw and fit the valve. Fit to the torch and fit the cylinder with standard lighter butane and check for leaks. Good luck. If your not familiar with using phosphoric acid, please read the MSDS first and follow the safety instructions, especially the use of PPE. No.4 That's fantastic information, exactly what I've been looking for! This thread has great history, 10 years in the making! I managed to get hold of one of these torches recently but it came with no cylinders... Does anybody here have an empty butane cylinder or 2 they would sell me so I can modify them to be refillable? Or even better still, modify me a couple of cylinder and sell them to me at a price that makes it worth your while to do so?
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Post by yorkshireman on Mar 1, 2020 10:28:30 GMT
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Post by labrat on Feb 2, 2023 22:27:34 GMT
Cylinder with all the parts assembled prior to soldering, obviously remove the valve before soldering. I finally made the insert tube from stainless steel using phosphoric acid as the flux, this also worked well on the butane cylinder. I left the tube slightly proud so the solder had a larger surface area to make the joint stronger. When cool carefully fit a M5 screw into the tube, to act as a seal, and wash the acid of the piece. When dry remove the screw and fit the valve. Fit to the torch and fit the cylinder with standard lighter butane and check for leaks. Good luck. If your not familiar with using phosphoric acid, please read the MSDS first and follow the safety instructions, especially the use of PPE. No.4 That's fantastic information, exactly what I've been looking for! This thread has great history, 10 years in the making! I managed to get hold of one of these torches recently but it came with no cylinders... Does anybody here have an empty butane cylinder or 2 they would sell me so I can modify them to be refillable? Or even better still, modify me a couple of cylinder and sell them to me at a price that makes it worth your while to do so? I found a blowtorch with quite a few used and unused propane cylinders. Anyone interested in trading? I would be interested in the refillable version with the lighter refill valve, but don‘t feel brave enough to attempt the mod myself.
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Post by 92220 on Feb 8, 2023 15:09:16 GMT
Can we have a photo or photos, of the Microflame torch that the cylinders are being searched for? We are model engineers and used to finding unusual ways to perform standard jobs. I have looked for Microflame torches on the 'net and have found 2 or 3 different designs. One of which has hoses, which if the OP is looking for gas cylinders to fit this kind of torch, there are at least 3 ways to get over the problem of "none on the market". Even the kind of torch that has the cylinders fitted directly to it, and the actual torch is part of the assembly, can be fed via 'after market' miniature hose, and adaptor fitting, from standard gas cylinders.
Bob.
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