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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2018 20:21:51 GMT
Evening all Well tonight see's 4472 with the first bit of colour, yes I managed to get paint on the inner frames. It's a little warm for enamel's really but I left it till late afternoon and got the paint on. Before that I needed to make a temporary spray booth. I made this up from a roll of poly sheet, some timber, use of the garden apple tree and BBQ housing....took about half an hour to arrive at this contraption....I have to say it worked well keeping the wind out. Here's the underside which I did first, I masked up general areas to keep any overspray down, I also masked up the lightning holes and the front roughly where the red/black divide is. The brake trunnions and spring brackets which will be black I left unmasked, these will be over painted once the red is fully cured. A gave this about 3 coats and left to dry for a few minutes... I then turned the chassis over and did the top....I actually repeated the process twice.. Once the paint was semi dry, I took the chassis back into the workshop and removed all of the tape, not too much overspray which makes life a little easier for prepping before adding the black. I'm very happy with the result, no runs and good coverage all over. You can't do the usual practice of spray before reaching the job and stop after making the pass, there's a lot of quick blasts involved due to all the parts and their difficult to get at crevices...of course the buffer beam was simple spraying.. The brass strip in the foreground is a test piece, I'll use this to test for when the paint has hardened enough for masking and painting the black. I'll take a closer picture to show the finish later, it's not easy fitting frames this long into the lens... And I also got the bogie and trailing axles in red too, once these are fully cured I'll add the green.... So some exciting times ahead, we have warm weather for the next two weeks so once cured I'll be able to get on with the black...I'm looking forward to it... regards Pete
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 10:29:31 GMT
I posted this picture on my FB timeline earlier so best post here as promised before I forget. Here's a close up of the red, looks even better in the morning light so I'm happy. While this cures I'll make a start on the copious amount of parts that need painting in satin black. If I find time I'll do this late afternoon. I have to say that I'm very impressed with the professional synthetic thinners that I've used,(lucky buy on eBay from a car paint specialist) the paint is not only dry but takes masking tape too?...don't worry, I won't attempt any masking of the actual chassis until the paint's had a few more days to cure. Better still a 5 ltr can is cheaper than a 1ltr tin from Phoenix paints and it was post free too...... Pete
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Post by qreidford on May 29, 2018 19:19:20 GMT
Pete, Looking good, this is interesting as we are at about the same point with painting, I’ll have to take a photo of my frames as a comparison as my red is much darker, but I’m not changing it 😀 It that a brush, spray, rattle can or air brush application? I’m on a rattle can at the moment but the Phoenix colours will go on with an air brush
Cheers
Q
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 19:58:58 GMT
Pete, Looking good, this is interesting as we are at about the same point with painting, I’ll have to take a photo of my frames as a comparison as my red is much darker, but I’m not changing it 😀 It that a brush, spray, rattle can or air brush application? I’m on a rattle can at the moment but the Phoenix colours will go on with an air brush Cheers Q I wouldn't worry about the colour Q, the jury's out on whether it's buffer red as I've done or vermillion. I did look closely at both and there's not a lot of difference, once in service with the grime gained with running you wouldn't be able to tell which colour has been used anyway.. The red does look bright to me, interestingly Heritage got back to me yesterday and suggested 'vermillion' although stated as I that once on it's difficult to tell the difference. 4472 has certainly been painted the colour that I've used as it was confirmed to me by the guy who applied the red..this picture which I have posted before looks exactly the same colour even with the grime...today's colour I used an airbrush, low air and low fluid mix, about 20% thinners, I used more thinners for the last coat on the buffer beam. I may give the buffer beam another high gloss coat ( more thinners), i'll decide this later and if so it will be done with the chassis standing upright so that I avoid runs. That's a way off yet...need to get the black on first... btw parts of the black will be brushed due to the difficulty of getting in with a gun...I'll mask the red, spray the black, remove all tape and paint the spring hangers and brake trunnion and any other awkward parts by hand. cheers Pete
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Post by drumkilbo on May 29, 2018 20:19:50 GMT
Looking great Pete, I manage to buy 5 litres of thinners from an auto suppliers in Forfar very reasonable price. What are you using for satin black? Ian.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 20:40:35 GMT
Thanks Ian.....I'll be sticking with Phoenix, you may recall that some years ago my wife bought me most of the paint required from Phoenix at the midlands show....I'll be using 'Dull' black for the frames, I'm not sure if I have enough but will paint what I can. I have two cans of Doncaster green and a can of gloss black for when needed. I'm using craftmaster vermillion for the lining. for anyone interested, this is the thinners that I'm using... www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5L-Pro-Range-Synthetic-Enamel-Paint-Thinner-Automotive-Industrial-5litre/183074780452?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649This must be a very quick drying thinners, I put some masking tape on the test piece this morning using my nail to rub it on, left it a few hours and peeled it back...not a mark?...ok the test piece only had one coat and the chassis must be closer to six but it's very encouraging all the same. Interestingly, yesterday during spraying the top, I realised that the main running board supports would be on the ground when turned over and so I put tape over them, one already had paint on it but I taped it anyway. So this tape was applied within minutes of painting...when I later removed all of the tape the paint under the tape on the support stayed on it and the tape was totally clean? There wasn't much paint there anyway but I was surprised that it had dried that quick, or at least dried enough to not be effected by the tape? Pete
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Post by qreidford on May 29, 2018 20:55:59 GMT
Pete,
Interesting issue on tape as I ended up having to strip the tender as I couldn’t remove the tape residue - time to cure makes a big difference but your thinners sound the business. BTW I use Tamiya tape for pre painted parts and frog tape for the masking paper to masking paper areas.
It’s all great fun !!👍 Cheers Q
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2018 21:06:22 GMT
I like tamiya tape, alas I'm out just now...I have a number of very fine plastic 3M tapes for the tricky areas...the tape I did the test with was normal 1" paper, good quality, (my eldest supplied me with tape, mixing cups, poly sheet and extractor filter material for my small unit inside the workshop...I used this today for priming the expansion link bracket and weighshaft bearings.. nonetheless the tape was nothing special.. Thinners was a lucky hit,,,I was just looking for something that wasn't silly money, synthetic and suitable for enamels....I've used phoenix quick drying in the past but money wasn't an issue back then.
Pete
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2018 17:27:25 GMT
Continuing with painting the frames I have spent this afternoon painting most of the smaller parts..i didn't manage to paint anything yesterday due to the torrential rain that we had here in London. It totally destroyed my makeshift spray booth, no surprise there considering how heavy the rain was. Whilst looking at the damage and cursing the weather my wife said why don't you just use the BBQ hut? Women are so clever aren't they.. well in my defence I hadn't suggested this before as I thought that she wouldn't have approved.. Anyway, it took little time today to move some gear out (the BBQ itself is away on lone) and wrap some new ploy around the hut, no storm is goinmg to move this hut.. Here's the end result.. And the parts that have now been sprayed in semi-black.. bogie, trailing frames and expansion link brackets... Bogie: guard irons, front and rear stays, front and rear spring control shields, front shield protectors. Cartazzix: axle boxes, oil trays, front covers, horn stays and cab steps. The bogie shield protectors have been re-profiled to match the type for the late 30's,(details found after i'd made them)basically the inner bottom corners were rounded off. With the next picture I had a small error, well error of judgement really, I thought that I would hold these in the small spray booth seen in the last picture and paint them there. Bad idea as I had no room to move and couldn't get enough space between gun and part without covering everything on the outside with paint. This resulted in a run and so I stopped after one light coat. I'll go back to these tomorrow if dry enough and paint them outside as I should have in the first place. Talking of paint drying I took another look at the test piece in red, I added another tape which is extremely sticky...I then peeled both tapes back half way which is what's shown in the last picture for this evening, as you can see the tape has had no effect on the paint. I then tried a piece on the chassis itself in an unseen spot, still no mark so I'm taking that as it's dry enough for the next stage. I'm leaving it anyway for another full night and tomorrow I'll begin taping over the red and hopefully get the black on by late afternnon, assuming that is that the rain stays away..I think there's another thunderstorm forecast so we shall see.. There are a few small blemishes on the black but I'm not really worried about this, it's the chassis and it's a dull black anyway, they may well disappear once the paint drys and looses it's sheen. All being well I'll give one more update end of the week with chassis in both black and red...Next week I should be able to put a few bits back together but not anything that needs lining, this will have to wait a number of weeks to ensure the pain isn't effected by white spirit when tidying up any of the lines if needed. more soon guys Pete
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 19:16:42 GMT
Evening guys...last update for this week....painting is progressing well..first job was to sort out the runs on the wheels from when trying to do the first coat in far too small an area. This paint/thinner mix dries pretty quickly ( note that the semi-gloss paint takes longer) which meant I could rub down the offending parts using 1500 grit and plenty of water. I had kept a latex glove over the mixed paint from the first coat which I now put to good use. I first gave each wheel set a few coats and then left then to dry for five minutes to give the paint time to grab. I then took each in turn and gave the front face a heavy coat of paint immediately holding the axle upright to let said coat flow and flatten. I happy to say that this resulted in all six wheels having nice flat high gloss faces. There's a couple of dust particles but nothing that will really show, most probably hidden when the lining is done. When it comes to painting the boiler/cab, tender etc I'll ask my son if I can do the painting at his car spray booth with it's full filtration gear, I don't want any dust on these very prominent surfaces. I'll leave the lining for a while, I need to make a jig for this first anyway I then began to reassemble the bogie, the suspension was stripped/cleaned and reassembled, learning from the 'spring hanger' saga I used a clear grease this time around. Suspension is now back on the frames, sideways spring control is fitted too..I need to paint up the various bolts before I can refit the other parts. I forgot to say on the wheels that the axle boxes are back in place and that the oil pads have now been primed with oil. The oil cups that I added to the bogie suspension which feed oil to the axle boxes will be left dry until the bogie is finished. The frames are progressing well, here's an overall view to show how they look, the unpainted area between frames is where the middle cylinder sits. The last picture for this session shows a closer view between the frames...I hand painted the various hangers and liked how easy this paint flows from the brush, it blends in with that from the spray gun very nicely. nothing has been put back on the frames yet, I'll leave it a few more days to dry, I was tempted to put the expansion link brackets back on but thought better of it as this would probably make taking them apart again in the future very difficult as the paint will act as a glue. That's it for this week, next week I'll finish reassembling the bogie, I need to make a new pivot bolt to replace the temporary brass one made a few years back and prime and paint the remaining small parts for the trailing axle.. thanks for looking guys.. Pete
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Post by allyman on Jun 1, 2018 19:40:22 GMT
Looking good pete ,i like your stands for the frames.
bryn
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 19:51:24 GMT
Looking good pete ,i like your stands for the frames. bryn Thanks Bryn...well I have plenty of old decking sitting around, it just happens to be slightly thinner than the slots, makes working on the frames much easier, protects the paint underneath and can't topple over....all good....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 17:41:02 GMT
Evening all...todays update is a mixture of painting, putting things back together and a little machining First picture shows most of what's left to go back on now painted, some have had a recoat as I wasn't happy with the finish, for these smaller parts I used a Badger 150 instead of the HVLP gun that I had used for the larger items. I have now painted the cartazzi springs and all of the various bolts ready for putting everything back together. The front bogie is going back together nicely.....trailing frame will need lining before any of that goes back together... Expansion link brackets and their related weighshaft bearings are now bolted to the frames.. Lastly for tonight the machining part... I have removed the temporary 5/16 support between the expansion link bearings, turned up suitable 5/16 bearings to fit from 8mm bronze bar, drilled and reamed them 7/32 for the link pins when fabricated. I couldn't find a drawing for these bearings in Don's sheets, nor any mention of them in his notes? I thoughte that I had read about them before but certainly couldn't find anything today or for that matter over the weekend either? No problem, the link pins are drawn as 7/32 dia and as they are only plain bushes I turned them up making them slightly proud of the width of the bearing housings. Some may remember the oil pot holes in these which are tapped 8BA (still hoping to find info for the pots themselves) I have taken advantage of these and rather than risking damage to the bracket with drift fitted bearings I have made them a sliding fit, no play, just a nice fit within the hole so that I don't damage them trying to drift close fitting bushes. To ensure that these can not move in operation I have continued the tapped 8BA hole through them so that the oil cups when fitted will keep everything as it should be. For now I have fitted 8BA bolts securing a short length of 7/32 silver steel to protect the bracket from being knocked and putting the bearings out of line. thanks for reading chaps Pete
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JohnF
Active Member
Looking for lost Mojo
Posts: 22
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Post by JohnF on Jun 6, 2018 15:38:12 GMT
Brilliant Thread Pete, on page 87 am catching you up. All been said before but you are a craftsman indeed. Regards John. Thanks John...and thanks for telling me were you are..I pop but for a quick look to see what I was up too.... Right now I'm painting...done a few coats and I'm happy so far...will turn the frames over one more time in 5 minutes and give the final coat of red...fingers crossed I'll have something to post tonight... Not made any progress Pete had to go up to Glasgow and give my hairbrained cousin a hand convering his living room into a kitchen, 6 days of dirty hard work, back today so look forward to catching up Regards John
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Post by allyman on Jun 7, 2018 20:07:22 GMT
looking good pete, thank you for the loan of the bending fixture they have made a first class job . I have put them in the post today back to you and i have enclosed a little to pay postage, look forward to meeting up at one off these L N E R days. Bryn
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 20:22:50 GMT
Evening guys It's been another mixed bag of bits and pieces done again for this week.. I have painted most of the bolts/screws ready for reassembly, I still have the cylinder screws to do. I have painted the front steps and guard irons and put them away awaiting the wheels to go back on. Rear beam parts are also done and the front running boards are in primer. The framework for these boards has also been painted and fitted back onto to the chassis. i have also painted and fitted the small door that covers the 2:1 gear pin back on it's stay. First picture is the only bit of machining since last update, this is the bogie pivot bolt, when I built the bogie some years back the only hex bar that I had in stock for the pivot was brass which I needed to change, I have now got around to this, I have made this one a little longer so that I can get a good lock nut on it. Picture shows new vs old..... I have put a number of bits back together, in this picture you can see that the trailing axle oil boxes that sit over the cartazzi assembly have been bolted onto the plate. Also in the picture is the brake trunnion which now has it's bearing back in situ. Here I have set up the trailing axle ready for lining, I had planned to make a jig but after a discussion with Adam (cro fittings) earlier today I'll try what he suggested and do it between centers..I needed this setup anyway for cleaning up of the treads so this can do both jobs. I have done a test on the paint from last week and it's not effected by lighter fuel, I'll be using white spirit for any cleaning of wayward lines so will test with this before starting the lining... As can be seen, I have been pretty busy with the spray gun, well both guns in fact, back to the HVLP for this one, as can be seen all wheels are now hardening ready for lining... Still to paint are the running boards...hope to get these in a semi-gloss finish which is a little shinier than a normal satin finish..if doing the main boards I'll need to remove all splashers first, whether I get around to painting them green remains to be seen, ideally I'd do these at the same time as cab,tender and boiler but it may be best to get these done now so that I don't risk damage to the paint on the running boards at a later date...we shall see. I may also paint the saddle once i have looked ahead to check that I haven't forgotten anything.... More soon..... Pete
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2018 18:43:59 GMT
Good afternoon all.. I'm posting an early update to ask a question as I've been trying to ascertain the livery of 4472's wheels for 1939. To be honest, gut feeling and reference seen to date suggests that I already know the details but since it goes against all my impressions of what 4472 looked like in the 30's I'll ask the question again to spread the net in case someone has info to refute what I believe to be the case. I always thought that 4472 was fully lined as per other LNER Pacifics, that is wheels with black/white lining. It seems that I am wrong and that what I thought was her Wembley 1924/5 livery in part stayed with her until the war when she was painted black, I had assumed she lost this late twenties. So chaps, before I remove the green from the rims I'll pass the batton out there in case I have this wrong. I'd prefer her to be lined but I'm 99% convinced that I'm not. Anyway, here's the wheels with the treads now cleaned, I'll remove the green this week if no other info emerges, I still need to do the black/white lining for the axle ends which I have plenty of references to show was there. Ok, so moving on with the latest changes...a couple of pictures to show where I am, first the bogie, horn stays, mudguards and the vacuum cylinder support brackets are ready to go back on. Trailing frames have had the first coat of vermillion lining applied, I hope to finish this tomorrow.. Lastly, a closeup of the various components for reassembly of the cartazzi axle, as you can see the lining for the spring and axlebox covers has been applied. I have also primed the outside motion brackets which I'll paint dull black later next week... so guys unless anyone has info to state otherwise I'll be removing the green very soon.... Thanks for reading... regards Pete
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2018 20:11:25 GMT
Evening all.... To conclude with the wheel livery subject, thank's to the input from others and the evidence in the various photo's both in books and online I'll be going with polished rims. The deciding factor is the picture taken of 4472 in 1938 when first fitted with the streamlined tender which clearly shows polished rims. This is only a matter of months before my chosen era and it's highly unlikely that the loco would have had any more work done on her during this short period, she certainly wouldn't have been repainted having just left the works with a new coat. Having made that decision I need to remove the green already applied, I have already done the trailing and bogie wheels and begun putting things back together which I'll cover in tonight's update. I am leaving the wheel axle end black/white livery until later when the paint has had a good chance to cure, although the main reason is I only have 4 weeks before the loco will be on display so have more than enough to do without adding to the workload. I have a few photos for tonight which are basically walking around the loco showing the parts that are near finished going back together now painted. I'll start from the front, first the bogie now assembled and back on the chassis, this time secured with a 2BA nyloc nut. Mudguards are fitted, nothing done to the buffer beam yet which I'll need to look at very soon Next a view down the length of the chassis..some may note the black overspray on the buffer beam...bad masking from me, I got lucky though as it will all hidden behind the buffer stock when fitted.. Another view down the centre, note the oil cups on the bogie axle yokes. This is an addition by me so that I have a good supply of oil to the axles and horns that can be easily reached, holes are drilled through the yokes, then as per drawing, into the tops of the axle boxes (small reservoir) and out to the horns guides. no main drivers fitted yet so I'll go straight to the trailing frames..frames are lined and cartazzi axle reassembled...there are a few spots that I will address later with the lining but it's not far off. as can be sem..cartazzi, steps, springs and associated parts have been refitted. Lastly a view from the rear.... Next week will involve removing the paint from the driver rims and refitting any other parts that are ready....should be looking like a loco again in a few weeks.... cheers Pete
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Post by simplyloco on Jun 11, 2018 20:50:15 GMT
Hi Pete I don't know what has happened but I can now see your pictures! I have some catching up to do... John Must check out Don9f...
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jun 11, 2018 20:52:48 GMT
Looks fantastic Pete, will you be protecting the polished rims in any way, or just oil?
Don
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