RDG getting snotty on Ebay?

[silverfox]

Found this mail on another forum

> As many will know Ower Gert has been selling bits on Ebay for engineers
for
> a while.
> However since RDG has taken over Myfords they are systematically having
> any object containing the word Myford removed from Ebay.
> Whether it's listed as a genuine Myford, a pattern part or even a second
> hand part they are being removed.
>
> Jim Marshall who trades as Lathe-Parts UK and sells genuine Myford second
> hand spares has even had some of his listings removed.
>
> Does this mean you can no longer sell a secondhand Myford or any parts off
> it, seems as if they think so.
>
> Rather ironic that for years they have sold cheap import patterns from
India
> which ultimately helped the demise of Myfords and they were not stopped,
> but now the boot is on the other foot it's different.
>
> We are not the only people being attacked, Jim Marshall as mentioned and
> even Chronos have had items removed.
>
> Just a heads up on the new owners underhanded ways of trading.
>


can they do this?

Ron ( the other one)

[kingsteam9]

On the face of it out of order if that is the case but a quick look at ebay this evening shows well over 600 items labelled Myford and only a percentage attributable to RDG, so is this genuinely the case?

Robin

[Deleted]

I'm no expert but I find this very difficult to believe. RDG may now own the Myford name but they don't own individuals private or trade goods. So someone who owns a Myford item should be able to advertise it as such to sell it. I can not see any law that would force eBay to remove any items unless they are forgeries, ie if Chronos or anyone for that matter try to sell a Myford copy as the genuine article then RDG could take action to have that item removed and then pursue said company for damages in court. However as far as I'm aware these items are not sold as genuine Myford products only as items that have been manufactured to fit Myford products.
Therefore IMHO there is no reason to remove such products from sale be it on eBay or any other method of advertising.

Pete

[Tel]

I'd be very dubious about it as well - probably not from a reliable source at all as ebay's advisers would know far better than to remove legally advertised items just because they carry a 'brand' name'.

[goldstar31]

Sorry but if it is all true, it is still E-bay's right to accept or reject advertisers.

There's no reason that someone else can't start up an equivalent service. Apart from the ability to put up the ante.
The Chinese put up the ante and literally smashed their way into machine tools- of which Myford is or was one very small player- who forgot the rules of business.

Norman

[baggo]

Having traced the original source of the quote, I don't think the person responsible for it would make something like that up.

John

[Tel]

lathe-parts still has 91 items listed with the Myford name, and over 500 hits in a general search for Myford.

Think about it blokes, anyone has the right to accurately describe any goods they are offering for sale, including the make (brand) if this were not the case all 'brand' owners could (and many would) crack down on the usage and gain some sort of exclusivity. Doing so would certainly be illegal in this country!

[johnstevo]

That original post was mine, and it is true.
Ebay are giving the reason that the owner of the Myford name has objected to the listed item and Ebay have removed it.

It doesn't stop you re-listing it though.
Something ower Gert has been doing for the last 5 days.

Even though it illegal under UK and EU law Ebay is looking after their best customers first which doesn't surprise anyone who has had dealings with Ebay.

Even Trading Standards can't get sense out of them.
We have lodged a complaint with Ebay 3 days ago but we are still having this problem.
Ebay has even emailed two customers to say their goods will not be sent to them because of irregularities even though the goods have already been sent out.

I did a search tonight for Ebay and Myford and came up with 16 listings, none of which related to Myford so they are guilty of keyword listing, if we report this we know nothing will be done.

Ironic that for years they sold Indian Myford copy parts with no redress from Myford which probably helped in Myfords demise, now they own then the boot is on the other foot.

None of the parts we sell as described as genuine Myford, only that they fit a Myford, many are unique in that Myford never made the item.

If it was legal to stop the sale of like parts then big industry, Ford, Microsoft, Sony etc would have jumped on the bandwagon years ago.

Lathe parts had a genuine Myford gearbox removed, he rang me to tell me, note his listing now, built pre July 2011 <g>
Not a copy, just a genuine secondhand part removed from a genuine lathe.

So if you want to sell any Myford lathes or parts perhaps Ebay isn't the place to sell them ?

John S.

[johnstevo]

This is the message
MC019 eBay Listing Removed: Trademark Breach - Unauthorised Listing Content (504292676)




Dear marypoppinsbag([e-mail]),

Thank you for your recent listing on eBay. Unfortunately, your item(s) breached one or more of our policies and had to be removed from the site. Any associated fees have been credited to your account and any bidders on this item have been notified.

160642653560 - Pair 21 tooth gears - fits all MYFORD lathes
360389180502 - Pr Tumbler Reverse Gears 28T & 30Tfits MYFORD Super 7
360390022794 - Pr Tumbler Reverse Gears 28T & 30T fits MYFORD Super 7


The rights owner or an agent authorized to act on behalf of the rights owner, MyFord Ltd, notified eBay that this listing breaches intellectual property rights. When eBay receives a report of this type of breach, we remove the listing to comply with the law.

Why did we remove your listing?

Your listing was reported for using a brand name without the right's owner's permission.

It's against the law to use someone else's trademark - the unique sign, name, word, phrase, logo, or symbol used to identify a product or service - without their permission. It can also confuse buyers about the source of your item or your relationship with the trademark owner.

You can use a company's brand name or logo in your listing description only if the item you're selling was made or authorised by that company.

If you need help with this policy, please follow this link:

contact.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ContactUsNextGen&Format=1&query=629&domain=MAC&from=003_VeRO_TMark

Here are our guidelines for creating legally compliant listings:
pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/compliant-listings.html from Ebay.

****************

However if you go to the last link it states.

3.
Use brand names appropriately

If you're selling a brand name product, you can mention the brand name in your listing and include photos that you've taken of the item. However:

Don't suggest that you're an official dealer/reseller if you're not

Don't use the manufacturer's text, images (including photos) or logo unless you're authorised to do so by the manufacturer

Example: If you're selling an Acme brand television, you can mention the Acme brand in your description. But you're not allowed to display a separate image of the Acme logo or state that you're an Acme dealer if you're not authorised by Acme to do so

You can use 'compatible with', 'fits' or 'for' before a brand name in the title of your listing if the item is specifically designed to be compatible with products of that brand

**************

Can anyone see how the 3 items Ebay listed fall fowl of their rules ?

They say it's against the law to use someone else's trade mark in the first email but in thier rules they say you can use it ?

John S.

[Deleted]

Hi John

Perhaps try relisting them as "after Market" parts for Myford, don't see how they can continue to argue the point if advertised as such?

Pete

[johnstevo]

Pete,
There shouldn't be any need to.
Their rules state:-

Example: If you're selling an Acme brand television, you can mention the Acme brand in your description. But you're not allowed to display a separate image of the Acme logo or state that you're an Acme dealer if you're not authorised by Acme to do so

You can use 'compatible with', 'fits' or 'for' before a brand name in the title of your listing if the item is specifically designed to be compatible with products of that brand

Gerts items read "fits all Myford Lathes" or "fits Myford Super 7" which complies.

The problem is RDG complain and Ebay removes the advert without checking ?

John S.

[baggo]

Hmmm, they won't be getting any custom from me in the future and I've spent a fair bit with them in the past. Obviously, the idea is to get a complete monopoly on any Myford products

John

[Tel]

I should have thought ebay would be a bit more circumspect by now - they have had their a$$e kicked a couple of times over 'monopoly' issues.

Suggest that you are going to challenge their decision thru the courts and see what they do!

[Boadicea]

Sept 8, 2011 22:37:20 GMT johnstevo said:

Ironic that for years they sold Indian Myford copy parts with no redress from Myford which probably helped in Myfords demise, now they own then the boot is on the other foot. John S.

Nice one.

eBay is getting expensive anyway - I sold something for 35 quid and it cost me over 6 quid in fees - 7 if you include PayPal. I got pulled up and threatened for not using their catalogue system. Too many regulations, too many professionals now.
Bring back the old steam eBay.

[Staffordshirechina]

Ebay is such a large, unwieldy organisation that they have no consistancy in these matters.
They do not check the information. Even if they did, most of their 'Agents' are too dim to understand anyway.

Given that all fees are refunded on these occasions, the best thing to do is to just keep re-listing as is.
Unless RDG are targeting John personally (which, of course, may be the case!) the system is unlikely to react too often. They just have purges now and again.
We have had adverts pulled by Ebay for no real reason so I just relist them and nothing happens.

Les

[alanstepney]

My response would be to go straight down to my solicitors, and issue a writ against Ebay.
Either make them back-down, or fight it in court.

And I would ensure that, in either case, it got the maximum publicity.

Once they knew you were serious, would they risk it?
I doubt it, and my experience of taking "the big boys" on is that most will back down straight away.
Other techiniques that work include buying a few shares then asking questions at the annual shareholders meeting, or writing to the chief executive at his home address.
(Yep, done both of them too!)

Of course, stopping using them and finding alternatives is also a good idea.

[Mike Clarke]

Seems a silly thing to do and hopefully people will avoid RDG if they continue this, it's usually a toss up between them and Chronos for me so won't be a problem.

As for eBay - I keep trying to avoid selling on there as they have no interest in the seller. I do try eBid but it's not got the same coverage, but seems to be building.

I recently sold a vice on eBay to a guy in Russia via UPS, I presume he was unhappy at how much import duty he was being charged, so refused the parcel. Eventually it came back to me and now I am £60 out of pocket as Paypal refunded the seller's postage costs to him. Nice! That's the result of Paypal's investigation, despite me and them knowing he has a habit of doing this by contacting other sellers on his feedback page. Just a warning.

For ME related items Home Workshop is best to sell - you may get a little less, but it works out even with there being no fees.

I just hope I live long enough to see the demise of eBay/Paypal.

[ace]

What a sad state, and it could well back fire for RDG as people will buy elsewhere as there are lots of suppliers selling Myford stuff. I thought that it was great that someone bought the Myford stock but disappointed they feel they need to resort to this kind of stuff, what a shame.

[miner]

I've ordered a fair ammount from RDG even though I live in Canada. I also fully agree with the opinions stated here. With enough people it's fairly easy to "adjust" the way any company does business. It's fine to complain about it here but the realitys are it has very little effect. As soon as I've finished posting this, I plan on emailing RDG with a link to this thread and tell them if they want any further business from me then I expect a post from them on this forum saying they were wrong and that no further actions regarding sellers using the Myford name will be taken. So if any of you feel strongly enough to post here about how wrong it is then you might want to take a few minutes of your time and do the same. Maybe a few hundred emails would help the sellers of used Myford parts. The internet and emails are a powerful tool if it's used correctly.

Pete

[davidm]

Presumably RDG watch this forum, it would be interesting to hear their take on all of this!

David