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Post by Roger on Apr 15, 2019 21:24:19 GMT
It may be that I need a little clip on the back of the balance pipe flange to stop it working its way out. Here I've added a blind Phosphor Bronze bush which is in the form of a rivet and peened over into a small chamfer on the outside. This will be Soft Soldered on the inside to seal it and give more strength. It's an M1.6 thread so it can be strong enough but also small enough not to be visible behind the tank flange. It's short and the end is chamfered so that it clears the curved inner wrapper. 20190415_210520 by Anne Froud, on Flickr I've actually filed this flush now. 20190415_210528 by Anne Froud, on Flickr You can see where they are on this inverted trial assembly. I won't make the clips until I know they're necessary. I need to assemble this on the locomotive next to check that the spacings are right. 20190415_221059 by Anne Froud, on Flickr
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Post by ettingtonliam on Apr 15, 2019 22:12:45 GMT
The balance pipe between the side tanks on my Juliet consisted of a piece of pipe sticking out of each tank, with a piece of bicycle pump tube pushed over the ends--.
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Post by Roger on Apr 16, 2019 20:59:40 GMT
This is the back of one of the Pannier tank brackets getting a clearance for the heads of two of the rivets that will secure the mounting bracket. They were too close to the edge to go through the angle itself. 20190416_123059 by Anne Froud, on Flickr And this 3mm square Brass section is going to secure the front of the tanks to the curved inner wrapper. 20190416_124327 by Anne Froud, on Flickr I've marked the hole centres by hand and then set the drill half way across. It's set up by eye since there's no sensible way to machine this accurately and it's not that important since it will be hidden anyway. 20190416_173523 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The first three holes were set up with the front on and it all clamped in place, then the rest were finished like this by hand. 20190416_202543 by Anne Froud, on Flickr I put rivets in each hole as it was drilled to make sure it didn't move. Now it's held by M1.6 nuts and bolts and rivets to locate it. 20190416_205455 by Anne Froud, on Flickr As you can see, the curve doesn't precisely match the curve of the front, so I'll have to carefully measure where the holes need to go and scribe a fine line I can use for centre popping. The main thing is to get somewhere near the middle of the square Brass section so it can take a rivet. All of this detail needs to be on the outside of the tank because it would be impossible to rivet if it was on the inside. 20190416_205523 by Anne Froud, on Flickr
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,440
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Post by dscott on Apr 16, 2019 23:35:45 GMT
NUMBER 279? Yes everyone must go and buy a copy! We were in Smiths waiting to see our Daughter and Model Engineers Workshop jumped into my hands. A very UPLIFTING article on page 17 is a great read as I am currently looking into how in the future I am going to move and lift the many and various! 2 Raglan lathes spring to mind and of course 4121 at a dry estimate of 90 KG!!! These are currently in the Garage and will need lifting up and down so the timing of the writings is superb! I do need to perfect the getting into the workshop bit at the end of the garden but a bit of building work on some proper steps should see this work better. It got a bit tricky with the Warco Mill bits and a slighter slope would help.
Thanks Roger. David and Lily and Katie.
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Post by Roger on Apr 17, 2019 7:10:06 GMT
NUMBER 279? Yes everyone must go and buy a copy! We were in Smiths waiting to see our Daughter and Model Engineers Workshop jumped into my hands. A very UPLIFTING article on page 17 is a great read as I am currently looking into how in the future I am going to move and lift the many and various! 2 Raglan lathes spring to mind and of course 4121 at a dry estimate of 90 KG!!! These are currently in the Garage and will need lifting up and down so the timing of the writings is superb! I do need to perfect the getting into the workshop bit at the end of the garden but a bit of building work on some proper steps should see this work better. It got a bit tricky with the Warco Mill bits and a slighter slope would help. Thanks Roger. David and Lily and Katie. Hi David, I'm pleased you found it interesting, there should be enough details and ideas to let anyone build the crane for their own workshop, provided there's room for supporting beams in an attic or enough headroom for them anyway. The headroom in my garage workshop is very limited, but there's an open attic space so for me it wasn't a problem.
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Post by 92220 on Apr 17, 2019 16:19:36 GMT
Hi Roger.
I got my copy of the April MEW this morning. It's a very interesting, and instructive article. Thanks for getting it into print. The crane/gantry can be fitted within the confines of almost any workshop. It's not even necessary to have an attic. As long as the ceiling is high enough, the main beams can be supported on vertical pillars of rectangular rolled hollow section of say 100mm x 60mm x 5mm section. With these bolted to the walls and the beam fixed to them either by welding or by a piece of angle bolted to the beam and the hollow section, there will be no adverse loading on the walls. The corner join can be strengthened if needed, by a welded steel gusset, or a strut bolted in place.
Bob.
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Post by Roger on Apr 17, 2019 21:44:40 GMT
Hopefully I'll be visiting the Maidstone track for the first time on Monday with a friend. I don't know if any Forum members are also members of that club, but it would be great to meet up if you are going to be there too.
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Post by Roger on Apr 18, 2019 11:19:36 GMT
1501 has the crazy arrangement whereby the water pipe from the injectors passes through the Pannier Tanks but not even in line with the top feed inlets! I don't know what they were thinking of, but it wasn't good design in my opinion. Anyway, that's what's on there, so that's what I'm having too. IMG_1413 by Roger Froud, on Flickr The inner wrapper of the tank is actually too close to the tube so I knew it would have to either neck in at that point or have a bend or flat of some sort to miss it. I also need to assemble this for soldering, so some sort of retainer is necessary, but a shoulder on each end would prevent it being assembled. With all that in mind, I needed to find a solution to fit a tube to the 13.3mm diameters in the tank tops and bottoms, and decided that 12mm copper tube was a good candidate. That would potentially miss the inner wrapper, but of course it's not big enough to fit the holes. So below we have a support for the inside of the tube so it can be held firmly in a collet, and a tapered swage made from Mild Steel. 20190418_102728 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The 16mm Steel just fits in my largest drill chuck, so here it's been pushed into the end after first annealing the end. I've used slideway oil on it, and moved it in and out as it got tight. Surprisingly it gets much easier when you pull it out and go back in again. I guess the oil manages to re-form a coating when you do that. Anyway, I didn't want it to crack, so I only went part of the way before annealing it again. 20190418_104129 by Anne Froud, on Flickr This is the situtation after round one of one end only. I'm using a 12mm collet and I wouldn't be able to get the collet off if I did both ends! 20190418_104252 by Anne Froud, on Flickr So the second round easily pushed the swage fully home... 20190418_110912 by Anne Froud, on Flickr ... like this. 20190418_110626 by Anne Froud, on Flickr I had some thin Copper foil, so I wrapped some of that around the outside and swapped to a 14mm collet. 20190418_112747 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The foil was annealed along with the tubes so in all, both ends had two annealing operations. You could probably do it in one, but why risk disaster. 20190418_115737 by Anne Froud, on Flickr This is a tad too snug at the moment, but a little easing with a file should sort that out. I plan to make a ring that goes on the inside top and bottom. The bottom one will be Silver Soldered in place to make sure it stays put when it's Soft Soldered in position. 20190418_115812 by Anne Froud, on Flickr
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Post by delaplume on Apr 18, 2019 13:17:04 GMT
Hello there matey !!
Yes, that routing is a bit odd, especially when you compare the same pipes on a 57xx type pannier where they go along the top of the tank towards the rear then drop down straight onto the respective injector....and the 57xx design was well established long before the 15xx....
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,756
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Post by mbrown on Apr 18, 2019 13:25:21 GMT
Just guessing, but on the 57XX the pipe goes around the outside of the tank not through it. Could it be that the 15XX is wider and higher at the top of the tank and thus rather tight to the loading gauge, therefore forcing them to take the pipe through the tank?
Of course, the 57XX originally had blackhead clacks so the top feed version was an afterthought and maybe a bit of a bodge.
Just a guess...
Malcolm
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Post by Roger on Apr 18, 2019 17:46:25 GMT
My guess is that it was an afterthought. I can't see why it couldn't have gone behind the tank directly in line with the top feed, there's nothing in the way at that point. I'm inclined to think it was a cockup, the holes in the tank being put in the wrong place.
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Apr 18, 2019 19:00:24 GMT
Hi, I don’t know much about GWR or BR(W) steam but are the feed pipes to the clacks flange fitting? Could it be that with the pipes in line with the clacks, there wouldn’t be enough movement to get the flanges onto their studs etc. and creating that odd looking arrangement gave a bit more room for assembly/disassembly?
Cheers Don
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Post by Roger on Apr 18, 2019 19:37:24 GMT
Hi, I don’t know much about GWR or BR(W) steam but are the feed pipes to the clacks flange fitting? Could it be that with the pipes in line with the clacks, there wouldn’t be enough movement to get the flanges onto their studs etc. and creating that odd looking arrangement gave a bit more room for assembly/disassembly? Cheers Don Hi Don, Yes, there are flanges up at the clacks at the top, but I think the flanges are at an angle. I think you would still be able to get them off if the tank holes were in line with the top feed. Who knows, it would be fascinating to hear what thought processes were going on when these decisions were made.
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Post by delaplume on Apr 18, 2019 22:09:45 GMT
This might help ???
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Post by delaplume on Apr 18, 2019 23:31:26 GMT
Hi Roger, I've been doing a wee bit of trawlering around looking for images showing the tank tops of various GWR tank locos........ Why is it the average "Gricer" only takes 3/4 front at ground level ??........ Here are images of a 45xx and a 61xx model in 4mm by Heljan and Bachmann .....( I think we can trust them to be an accurate copy ? ).......notice that they also have the same tube going in side of the water tanks as the 15xx ???
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Post by Roger on Apr 19, 2019 7:00:20 GMT
Hi Alan, That's interesting, so it's not a design unique to the 15xx class then, how bizarre. I'd love to know the reasoning behind it because it seems crazy to me.
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Post by andyhigham on Apr 19, 2019 7:53:31 GMT
Possibly the double bend is there to remove stress from expansion/contraction
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Post by delaplume on Apr 19, 2019 8:10:00 GMT
Hi Alan, That's interesting, so it's not a design unique to the 15xx class then, how bizarre. I'd love to know the reasoning behind it because it seems crazy to me. Hi Roger, I've sent this to Tyseley and Didcot}------------- }-- "Can you tell me why the feedwater pipes on a 15xx, 45xx, and a 61xx pass through vertical tubes that are set within the main water tanks in order to go from the injectors to the clack valves ??....whereas on the generic 57xx type the pipe runs along the top of the tank from the clack to the rear of the tank and then drops down to the injector.... Many thanks Alan Redgrave, Telford, Shropshire.". Hopefully we're get a response.......Bob Meanly is your man at Tyeseley but he's not there at the moment.. Alan
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Post by Roger on Apr 19, 2019 8:21:36 GMT
Possibly the double bend is there to remove stress from expansion/contraction That's an interesting point, but on 1501 there's a 90 degree bent at the bottom where it then goes to the Injector. There would be plenty of room for movement there. The pipe itself won't get especially hot, but the boiler will move of course.
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Post by keith1500 on Apr 19, 2019 17:54:26 GMT
My guess would be it probably aids fitting the pipe. The set would allow the fitter to be less precise with the pipe length and also to allow the pipe to swing back a little if servicing the top feed arrangement?
Keith
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