|
Post by ettingtonliam on Jun 23, 2019 17:44:27 GMT
Like the old joke 'whats the Irish word for handbrake? Answer - brick.
|
|
Andrew C
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 447
|
Post by Andrew C on Jun 24, 2019 16:07:21 GMT
Have you ever seen 2CV racing? It's the funniest thing! They roll all over the place in the corners.
Roger. Had you thought of using a hard wood like Cherry or Oak given a good dose of preserve I'm sure that they would be fine, so long as what ever is screwed in won't corrode and expand to split the pad.
Regards,
Andrew
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 24, 2019 18:16:05 GMT
Have you ever seen 2CV racing? It's the funniest thing! They roll all over the place in the corners. Roger. Had you thought of using a hard wood like Cherry or Oak given a good dose of preserve I'm sure that they would be fine, so long as what ever is screwed in won't corrode and expand to split the pad. Regards, Andrew Hi Andy, It's probably too thin to realistically use any kind of wood. The Tufnol seems to be good enough so I'll probably stick with that.
|
|
|
Post by steamer5 on Jun 25, 2019 1:32:17 GMT
Hi Roger, Yours will probably be one of if not the only one to date with anything in there! Keep up the inspiration work!
Cheers Kerrin
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Jun 25, 2019 12:16:33 GMT
Hi Roger.
How thick would the 'wood' strip be? If it is anything above 40 thou thick, boxwood from an old 2 feet carpenter's rule or a piece of well seasoned holly wood, would be tough enough to machine down to anything over 40 thou. In the past when I was making a plank-on-frame model of a 74 gun man o' war, I machined the planks, 1/32" thick x 1/4" wide, from well seasoned holly, no trouble at all....and I never had a plank split on me when driving bamboo pins into drilled holes. The important thing is to pick a wood that is very close grained but very tough, to hold itself together when in very thin section. If you want to experiment with some holly, I have some large pieces that have been seasoned for about 40 years that you can have to try cutting strips out of. I used to use a sharp 3" x 1/16" side-&-face cutter to cut wide 1/32" planks and then use the same cutter to slice into the plank widths needed, on an old horizontal mill. I'm sure it would be just as easy with a vertical head.
Another wood I've used is sycamore. On the 9f cab floor, to represent pine wood, the wooden planks are machined from thin (4mm x 150mm x 200mm) sycamore planks that I got off Ebay and I was able to machine the various scale size joints, accurate to a tolerance of a couple of thou, using a brand new end mill for sharpness.
Bob.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 25, 2019 13:08:00 GMT
Hi Roger. How thick would the 'wood' strip be? If it is anything above 40 thou thick, boxwood from an old 2 feet carpenter's rule or a piece of well seasoned holly wood, would be tough enough to machine down to anything over 40 thou. In the past when I was making a plank-on-frame model of a 74 gun man o' war, I machined the planks, 1/32" thick x 1/4" wide, from well seasoned holly, no trouble at all....and I never had a plank split on me when driving bamboo pins into drilled holes. The important thing is to pick a wood that is very close grained but very tough, to hold itself together when in very thin section. If you want to experiment with some holly, I have some large pieces that have been seasoned for about 40 years that you can have to try cutting strips out of. I used to use a sharp 3" x 1/16" side-&-face cutter to cut wide 1/32" planks and then use the same cutter to slice into the plank widths needed, on an old horizontal mill. I'm sure it would be just as easy with a vertical head. Another wood I've used is sycamore. On the 9f cab floor, to represent pine wood, the wooden planks are machined from thin (4mm x 150mm x 200mm) sycamore planks that I got off Ebay and I was able to machine the various scale size joints, accurate to a tolerance of a couple of thou, using a brand new end mill for sharpness. Bob. Hi Bob, It's only 0.6mm thick, so 24 thou in old money. To be honest, it's so small as to not really be worth bothering with, but I've made everything to account for that thickness so it's got to go in now. I think Tufnol is plenty good enough for the purpose. I may well be returning to this issue though when I come to make the planking for the floor of the Cab. I may well take you up on your kind offer of some Holly for that if you think it's suitable.
|
|
|
Post by andyhigham on Jun 25, 2019 13:24:11 GMT
My eyes keep getting drawn to the wooden tea stirrers as possible cab flooring
|
|
JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,912
|
Post by JonL on Jun 25, 2019 14:40:25 GMT
My eyes keep getting drawn to the wooden tea stirrers as possible cab flooring I used those as the decking for a boat I built a few years ago. The hardest part was clamping them down to a flat surface (deck) with a very irregular surface behind it, and of course making them flush to one another. I'm sure SimplyLoco would have a comment as he has built quite a few boats in his time.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 25, 2019 14:55:07 GMT
My eyes keep getting drawn to the wooden tea stirrers as possible cab flooring I used those as the decking for a boat I built a few years ago. The hardest part was clamping them down to a flat surface (deck) with a very irregular surface behind it, and of course making them flush to one another. I'm sure SimplyLoco would have a comment as he has built quite a few boats in his time. One idea would be to use double sided tape or just Wax to hold them down. With a razor sharp tool and very small cuts, the cutting forces can be very small indeed.
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Jun 25, 2019 16:13:22 GMT
Hi Roger.
0.6mm is a bit thin for wood, though it may be possible. Your Tufnol is probably the best alternative anyway. Holly is not the best wood for flooring because it has quite a distinctive twisty grain. The best wood for cab flooring is sycamore, and is a good scale representation of pine, which floors were probably made of. Sycamore could also represent oak, as it is almost the same colour....just slightly lighter in shade. If you search for Ebay item 123792356456, I bought my sycamore from this guy. Very helpful, and good timber. The 6mm thickness is easy to reduce to a couple of mm, if needed, with a brand new 6mm endmill. One precaution I always took was to have a scrap piece of timber up against the trailing edge so that the cutter had something to cut in to at the end of the mini floorboard cut, so as not to split the edge grain. I started to describe the machining of my wood floor planks towards the end of page 13 of my build thread, which may also help to make it clearer how I machined the wood.
Bob.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 25, 2019 17:35:17 GMT
Hi Roger. 0.6mm is a bit thin for wood, though it may be possible. Your Tufnol is probably the best alternative anyway. Holly is not the best wood for flooring because it has quite a distinctive twisty grain. The best wood for cab flooring is sycamore, and is a good scale representation of pine, which floors were probably made of. Sycamore could also represent oak, as it is almost the same colour....just slightly lighter in shade. If you search for Ebay item 123792356456, I bought my sycamore from this guy. Very helpful, and good timber. The 6mm thickness is easy to reduce to a couple of mm, if needed, with a brand new 6mm endmill. One precaution I always took was to have a scrap piece of timber up against the trailing edge so that the cutter had something to cut in to at the end of the mini floorboard cut, so as not to split the edge grain. I started to describe the machining of my wood floor planks towards the end of page 13 of my build thread, which may also help to make it clearer how I machined the wood. Bob. Thanks for that Bob, I've ordered that in readiness for that when I get there.
|
|
dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,438
|
Post by dscott on Jun 26, 2019 2:27:15 GMT
Lily dug up 2 leaves and a bud last year and planted it on the kitchen windowsill. The Holly is now 2 feet tall and should be mature by the time I get round to finishing all the various projects that need floorboards! Lily is hopeless with Houseplants so 3 cactus a sempervivum and a Holly seem to be indestructible!!!
On the garden front the constant walking up and down to the Workshop over different parts of the lawn seem to be keeping it down as to not need mowing yet. South Western Industrial Plasters do Tongue depressors as stirring sticks for resin etc. Thin beech and constant quality being wider than lolly sticks. I have a box somewhere?
David, and Lily far better at cooking but only Chinese I am afraid!
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 26, 2019 13:02:12 GMT
I've just received the replacement Aerogel.... which is exactly the same as the last one they sent. Clearly they either don't have 3mm thick material or they can't measure.
|
|
|
Post by 92220 on Jun 26, 2019 16:25:22 GMT
Hi Roger.
I got my replacement aerogel today too. It is much thinner than the first lot, though it is more compact and much more like ceramic fibre 'paper'. Some parts around the edges of the aerogel are up to 5mm but most of it is around 3mm to 4mm so should be usable for my boiler. Being more compacted, it will also (I hope) be able to be formed closely around the boiler shape. I'm not sure how I will retain it on the boiler yet, but I do have a large reel of 25 thou copper wire which I might try using. Any suggestions for an alternative?
I'm just modifying my rotating build frame to be able to access both sides equally, so that I can attach a lifting frame from the crane to the loco. When that is finished (couple of days) I'll see about insulating the boiler and let you know how it works out with the replacement blanket. I may have quite a bit left over when I've finished. If I have, I'll let you know and you can have the remainder if it is big enough for the 15xx boiler, and you can use it.
Bob.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 26, 2019 17:26:34 GMT
Hi Roger. I got my replacement aerogel today too. It is much thinner than the first lot, though it is more compact and much more like ceramic fibre 'paper'. Some parts around the edges of the aerogel are up to 5mm but most of it is around 3mm to 4mm so should be usable for my boiler. Being more compacted, it will also (I hope) be able to be formed closely around the boiler shape. I'm not sure how I will retain it on the boiler yet, but I do have a large reel of 25 thou copper wire which I might try using. Any suggestions for an alternative? I'm just modifying my rotating build frame to be able to access both sides equally, so that I can attach a lifting frame from the crane to the loco. When that is finished (couple of days) I'll see about insulating the boiler and let you know how it works out with the replacement blanket. I may have quite a bit left over when I've finished. If I have, I'll let you know and you can have the remainder if it is big enough for the 15xx boiler, and you can use it. Bob. Hi Bob, I only looked at the edges, so maybe mine is the same. I'm not sure 4mm would be acceptable on mine, but it's not an issue since I've already lagged the main barrel. It would have been nice to have used Aerogel though. Hopefully I can use it between the wrapper and the Pannier Tanks. I'll be interested to see how you get on, that's very kind of you. I've just used sewing thread wound around the insulation and then tied off. It's only got to hold it so that the cladding can be put in place so it doesn't have to be strong or that permanently bound.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 26, 2019 22:07:15 GMT
There's been quite a lot of whittling away of various parts of the Pannier tanks to get them to fit closely enough to the cladding. I know how close they have to be because the bridges ought to be right now I've sorted out what they should be from the 3D model. Most of that has now been done, but it just didn't sit quite right at the front, there was a slightly bigger gap on one side of the Pannier tanks compared to the other. After some head scratching it proved to be a slight misalignment on the smokebox saddle that was pulling the front of the boiler to one side. If you recall, I machined the saddle parts from plate and then tacked them with the TIG welder before Silver Soldering. I thought the saddle plate would be plenty good enough like that, but it turns out that it wasn't. Having set up a 3D tool path to match the smokebox, a quick trial pass showed where the problem lies. The rear corner can't have been sitting quite flat when it was tacked. You can see that this has cleaned up with about 0.2mm being removed when the whole thing should have been lightly touched if it was perfect. These are 1mm step over cuts just to show what's required. 20190626_173819 by Anne Froud, on Flickr And this is how it looked with a further 0.2mm cut, it's almost cleaned up completely. 20190626_191123 by Anne Froud, on Flickr So much so that I decided to finish it at that setting with 0.125mm step over. Obviously that's not going to give the best finish, I would have had to take a small cut for that. I really didn't want to take any more off than was absolutely necessary, so I've left it even with the tiny patch that didn't quite clean up at all. Sometimes you have to be pragmatic about these things, it's not going to be seen anyway. 20190626_211334 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The result is exactly what was needed to even things up, this looks right now. 20190626_225217 by Anne Froud, on Flickr
|
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
|
Post by jma1009 on Jun 26, 2019 22:39:28 GMT
Hi Roger,
That looks very good! I'd be very happy with that. I hope the adjustments haven't altered the chimney being vertical etc?
Cheers,
Julian
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Jun 26, 2019 22:53:08 GMT
Hi Roger, That looks very good! I'd be very happy with that. I hope the adjustments haven't altered the chimney being vertical etc? Cheers, Julian Hi Julian, I'm glad you like it, I'm happy with it now. No, the adjustments haven't changed anything significant, the smokebox just sits 0.2mm lower than it did before. It doesn't affect the drafting geometry or any of the other alignments other than to get them true to the centre line of the chassis. If it hadn't have been for the Pannier Tanks, I wouldn't have noticed that it wasn't quite right, it didn't really show. Still, it's better to get it as close as possible.
|
|
|
Post by chris vine on Jun 26, 2019 23:11:20 GMT
Sorry Roger, But all this talk about cab floors has reminded me of a story which I was told years ago.
In Edinburgh Haymarket shed, amongst some 300 people who worked there was a joiner. It was his job to cut new floorboards for the cabs when they wore out.
He must have been quite a character and he was notable for only have two tools: A wood saw and and axe. It was clear that the saw was used for cutting planks, but nobody knew what a joiner used an axe for.
One day he was instructed to go to the foreman's office because the door was rubbing on the floorboards and was getting difficult to open and close. All the men were taking bets as to whether he would use the saw or the axe to trim the bottom off the foreman's door! They were all very disappointed when he turned up with a plane, especially as they had never seen him with one of these precision instruments.
However all good humour was restored when, instead of planing the bottom off the door, he planed the floorboards instead!!
Sorry to interrupt Roger's thread. Chris.
|
|
|
Post by ettingtonliam on Jun 27, 2019 5:57:14 GMT
Most of our shuttering joiners were armed only with a handsaw, a hatchet and a hammer! The hatchet was used for chopping wooden wedges and 'fine' adjustments. The only one with a plane and any knowledge of how to use one was the foreman.
|
|