peteh
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Post by peteh on Jul 20, 2014 1:40:36 GMT
Thanks Pete for the offer, however I shall be able to resolve the printing issue locally. I am not expecting that this should be a Q&A on DraftSight, however there is a annoying issue which I haven't had the opportunity to resolve by the tutorials that I have watched so far. When drawing lines that touch other lines there is a three types of snap to that I don't want. These are end point, mid point and perpendicular. How do I turn these off? Brian Haven't seen a reply for this one so will try to help. THe Autocad command is "osnap" which brings up a selection box where you can turn on/off each of the snapping settings. Try looking for snap settings in the help (assuming there is one).
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uuu
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Post by uuu on Jul 20, 2014 6:10:04 GMT
The SolidEdge name is IntelliSketch, but has the same idea: a set of tick-boxes for you to turn on/off each setting. It's like drving an unfamiliar car and trying to find the light switch.
Wilf
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Post by runner42 on Jul 20, 2014 7:40:19 GMT
I'm surprised that these are things that you want to turn off, they are the mainstay of most drawings. It may be something as simple as holding down a key while placing the line, try holding down Shift or Ctrl, that might work. I don't use a grid, and if something wanted to snap to something like and end point, I'd just drop the end far away so it can't snap. You can then move it to where you want with a dimension or a constraint. For pdf outputs I use a little program called doPDF which is very clever. Basically it's installed as if it were another printer, so anything you can print, you can also create as a pdf regardless of whether the program you're using generates them or not. When you go to print anything, you go to the dropdown box where it shows the printer and you'll be able to select it from there. You browse to where you want the file to be created and then click print. It's very useful and it's the way I save my Alibre Drawings if I need to email them. Personally I never print out anything any more, I've gradually weaned myself off paper drawings. Everything is on the home network, shared through Dropbox so it's all backed up and accessible from the workshop computer. That way I don't ever need paper copies of anything and every drawing or model I've ever created are available at the click of the mouse. I just find it more convenient. It may be the way I am approaching the drawing process, however if you are drawing a box that has one side that is at an angle, representing the tapered boiler tube and if you want one line to touch it that is vertical, thus bisecting the angled line at an angle other than 90 degs, as you near the angled line a snap box appears indicating perpendicular and your forced to accept that situation the vertical line is no longer vertical. I have found out how to turn off this feature, it is unchecking a box in the options menu, but I aggree that many situations exist in the drawing process where this feature is desireable to have. To turn it on or off during the drawing process by a keyboard shortcut would be a great feature, whether this exist in DraftSight I've yet to discover. Brian
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Post by Roger on Jul 20, 2014 7:58:14 GMT
Hi Brian, In that sort of situation, you can just draw your new line beyond the one you want it to eventually connect to, and then trim the end you don't want. That's the way I draw a lot of things. Sometimes a line will want to snap to a middle or end point so just move away so it doesn't do that. Here's another classic case that is easy to draw when you know how. It's the case of a belt passing round two pulleys of different diameters. In Alibre, the easiest way is to draw the two circles first. I then draw a long line at any angle that's much longer than the final one needs to be and draw it miles away from the two circles. Then I use the Tangential Constraint tool to tell the line that it's a tangent to the first and second circles. I do that with another line on the opposite side and then trim all the bits I don't want. I'm sure you will have trim tools, and probably constraints too. You need to think in terms of constructing the geometry rather than the exact drawing. It takes seconds to chop out the bits you used for construction lines.
Here's another thought. Say you're constructing a tiangle and you know the three lengths of the sides. Draw one line and then draw two circles at the ends, each having a radius of the length of the remaining sides. You can then snap a line to the point where they cross. That's pretty much how you'd do it on paper and you can do it in CAD too. There are so many ways of going about things, but knowing what tools you have makes all the difference. I'd look up Constraints and see if your CAD program allows you to add them manually.
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peteh
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Post by peteh on Jul 20, 2014 8:54:43 GMT
Hi Brian, Again not sure if this helps or not, but in Autocad it's F3 to switch snapping on or off.
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Post by Donald G on Jul 20, 2014 10:32:43 GMT
Hi Brian
I think what you are looking for can be done by starting the line from the point you wish, move cursor to the area where the line is to finish, rigth mouse button click, this brings up a very useful set of menus. Select Esnap overides, move cursor to right and a new panel appears with all the snap points on it, select what you need in order to get final point in correct place and click on it, then go to drawing and click the point you want.
I actually use the right click menu virtually all the time to select and also to change operation as there is a list of previously used activities, ie line, circle, move etc.
I hope this helps,
Donald
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Post by runner42 on Jul 20, 2014 22:54:01 GMT
Hi Brian, In that sort of situation, you can just draw your new line beyond the one you want it to eventually connect to, and then trim the end you don't want. That's the way I draw a lot of things. Sometimes a line will want to snap to a middle or end point so just move away so it doesn't do that. You need to think in terms of constructing the geometry rather than the exact drawing. It takes seconds to chop out the bits you used for construction lines. Hi Roger, that is a very relevant point that I am discovering using this CAD programme. However, I think that it is my lack of understanding of the capabilities of it that is forcing me to think of ways of doing it in an adhoc fashion. Intially I was doing exactly as you suggested extending the line further so it was outside the snap area and then using the scale facility to bring to the end point of the line to where I wanted it. Very unproductive.
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Post by runner42 on Jul 21, 2014 0:20:43 GMT
Thanks Pete and Donald.
On another point I am finding it very diffulcult to produce the boiler in DraftSight, which is due to my inexperience. Most objects such as a boiler has material thickness so to depict it faithfully instead of drawing a single line representing a side you have to either construct a rectangle with two sides of the material thickness and the other two sides representing the length. This is OK when the side is vertical or horizontal but as often it is at an angle so it can't be done easily using the rectangle command. It has to be constructed using the line command four times to produce the required side. The rectangle is all four lines grouped together, whereas the other is four separate pieces. Any changes in the four line geometry needs to done separately.
Another issue is one of lack of dimensions provided by LBSC and particulary in the size of the curves used to produce the shape of the Belpaire firebox. I am sure that builders of his Black 5 Doris had a full size drawing so it was just a case of using the drawing as a guide when making the formers for producing the flanged plates.
Brian
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Post by runner42 on Jul 21, 2014 5:02:58 GMT
Some years ago I dabbled in using Maya a 3D rendering programme, how quickly you forget how to use software when you are not a regular user. Anyhow one thing I remember which if the feature existed in DraftSight which would overcome my diffulculty in producing the curves for the Belpaire firebox is the ability to load in a picture of it which could be used as a template to trace the outline in DraftSight. This would simplify matters.
Brian
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peteh
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Post by peteh on Jul 21, 2014 5:39:21 GMT
OK Brian. 1st off if you are only drawing the boiler 2D (which I think draftsight is) then you are only producing linework, not sheets of metal. Therefore do the outer lines to your dimensions and then use the offset command to offset that line by the material thickness. This will offset by the required amount regardless of orientation. Use layers to group information / lines together for such features as boiler wrapper, firebox and so forth. You can then switch layers on or off to suit what you are wishing to show. Also you can present each feature in a seperate colour on your screen to help identify what is what. Not sure about the background image in draftsite, although it is a fairly common feature these days. In Autocad command it is attatchimage. Again help is your friend!
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Post by Roger on Jul 21, 2014 7:14:57 GMT
Hi Brian, In that sort of situation, you can just draw your new line beyond the one you want it to eventually connect to, and then trim the end you don't want. That's the way I draw a lot of things. Sometimes a line will want to snap to a middle or end point so just move away so it doesn't do that. You need to think in terms of constructing the geometry rather than the exact drawing. It takes seconds to chop out the bits you used for construction lines. Hi Roger, that is a very relevant point that I am discovering using this CAD programme. However, I think that it is my lack of understanding of the capabilities of it that is forcing me to think of ways of doing it in an adhoc fashion. Intially I was doing exactly as you suggested extending the line further so it was outside the snap area and then using the scale facility to bring to the end point of the line to where I wanted it. Very unproductive. I'm curious to know why you scaled the line to bring the end point to where you wanted it instead of trimming the end? How could you possibly know the correct scale to use, it would never meet exactly. You'll get into all sorts of trouble if you try to make things look like they meet when in fact they are slightly off when you zoom up. You really need to use snapping, cutting, dimensioning and constraints to make absolutely sure that lines truly meet as the geometry requires, near enough isn't good enough. You 'll find that out if you send off files for laser cutting. Lines that overlap, or don't quite meet will cause real headaches. It's the same story for CNC tool paths, and good CAD packages will warn you if the shape you've drawn has overlaps or open shapes. That's absolutely necessary in 3D else it can't make sense of the shape you're creating. 2D is pretty dumb in that regard, it's just an automated drawing board with a few extra benefits. Maybe you can find a free 3D modelling package that would suit your needs better, or perhaps buy a cheap one. That way you only have to draw the model and the drawings draw themselves. I doesn't matter how complex the shape is, you can have whatever view you like. 3D is so much more useful than 2D and not significantly harder to use. All of the things you've learned with 2D are transferable and getting the 3rd dimension is a simple step. It's nothing like as difficult as you might imagine. It's a pity I can't sit down with you and show you how straightforward it can be.
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Post by runner42 on Jul 22, 2014 23:19:09 GMT
Thanks Pete the offset command is a very helpful tool to getting all sorts of things right, it's makes the process much easier. With the PolyLine I have been able to create a line with many points with each point able to be moved to a specific position to form complex shapes similar to that required for the Belpaire firebox. So I am almost there.
Roger it must have been frustrating for you reading my progression with the CAD programme. I didn't actually use the scale command, it was just a case of selecting the line and using the little blue grab box to extend or reduce the line. Earlier work has been just as you indicated that the line appeared to meet contiguous lines but zooming in showed that there were gaps. With the snap commands being turned on or off as required those errors are being corrected. It's been an iterative process I have revisted earlier work which was constructed using incorrect methods, but thankfully this is only to produce a drawing that shows design data that conforms to the AMBSC Code Part 1. If it was required to produce an item using CNC would be another matter.
Brian
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peteh
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Post by peteh on Jul 23, 2014 5:59:09 GMT
I would have to admit one of the major problems in CAD is that each program tends to use different teminology for the same task. I have been using Autocad for 20+ years, and before that an inhouse package. Worked in CAD since leaving school in the mid 70's. I have tried various other cheap/free cad packages over the years but always found it hard to do simple things purely because the terminology was so different. Looking for 'copy' when the new name was 'clone' for example. One thing I am definate about though - icon driven CAD is much less efficient than command driven CAD. It has been shown in several studies that this is so.
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Post by Roger on Jul 23, 2014 6:53:21 GMT
I would have to admit one of the major problems in CAD is that each program tends to use different teminology for the same task. I have been using Autocad for 20+ years, and before that an inhouse package. Worked in CAD since leaving school in the mid 70's. I have tried various other cheap/free cad packages over the years but always found it hard to do simple things purely because the terminology was so different. Looking for 'copy' when the new name was 'clone' for example. One thing I am definate about though - icon driven CAD is much less efficient than command driven CAD. It has been shown in several studies that this is so. I'd dispute that last statement Pete, with the right tools and techniques, it's blindingly quick to create geometry with a mouse. Remembering the syntax of text commands is a nightmare unless you're a professional user. I can see why people stuck with it on AutoCad when they first added mouse functions because it was clumsy and unintuitive, like the rest of the package was. I don't know if it's any better these days. The better packages have been designed from the ground up for mouse only operation and they have superb tools as a result.
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Post by Roger on Jul 23, 2014 7:05:06 GMT
Thanks Pete the offset command is a very helpful tool to getting all sorts of things right, it's makes the process much easier. With the PolyLine I have been able to create a line with many points with each point able to be moved to a specific position to form complex shapes similar to that required for the Belpaire firebox. So I am almost there. Roger it must have been frustrating for you reading my progression with the CAD programme. I didn't actually use the scale command, it was just a case of selecting the line and using the little blue grab box to extend or reduce the line. Earlier work has been just as you indicated that the line appeared to meet contiguous lines but zooming in showed that there were gaps. With the snap commands being turned on or off as required those errors are being corrected. It's been an iterative process I have revisted earlier work which was constructed using incorrect methods, but thankfully this is only to produce a drawing that shows design data that conforms to the AMBSC Code Part 1. If it was required to produce an item using CNC would be another matter. Brian Hi Brian, We've all been there and learned the hard way, so I understand how difficult it can be to re-learn your whole way of going about drawing things. There are two things that I don't think you've mentioned anywhere and they are a mainstay for drawing lines and arcs. 1) Some sort of Cut - Simply cuts out a segment of an existing line, it may be called Trim. 2) Some sort of Extend - Simply extends the line to the next feature so it can make a perfect intersection. When I draw something, I freely add liines and circles, dimensioning things and creating relationships like lines being tangents to circles etc. It can look a complete mess but it doesn't matter so long as the final lines you want are all there. I then use the Cut tool to chop out all the stuff that's not required, trim the ends of line that were miles too long etc. The key thing to note about this is that I don't get hung up on creating precisely the lines I want, trying to figure out intersections that are tricky. The computer is good at doing that. Try this.... Create a circle and then draw a long line that crosses it. Now find a tool that cuts off the ends of the line. Now draw another long line roughly perpendicular to the line but away from it. Now find a tool that extends the first line so it becomes longer and strikes the second line. If you can find these tools, most of your problems will be over.
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peteh
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Post by peteh on Jul 23, 2014 7:05:51 GMT
Fair enough Roger. The studies were by/for professionals. I can readily appreciate how icon driven is easier for the more casual user.
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Post by ejparrott on Jul 23, 2014 8:04:28 GMT
Mastercam we use at work, I'm version X trained. It is icon driven by mouse, but retains key commands from version 9 which was all key command, although mouse does function. I can create drawings just as fast as the V9 users, so I too dispute that claim. That's my job, that's not me as a casual user.
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Post by runner42 on Jul 23, 2014 23:18:58 GMT
DraftSight has mouse commands and the command line. Being new to CAD I had no diffulculty in embracing the command line as part of the learning process and I think it is essential to use it when specifying dimensions. Unless there is a way of displaying as you go the length of a line which I am not aware of in DraftSight, how can you using mouse only commands draw a line of specified length and to an accuracy of say 0.001"?
Brian
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Post by vulcanbomber on Jul 23, 2014 23:45:24 GMT
DraftSight has mouse commands and the command line. Being new to CAD I had no diffulculty in embracing the command line as part of the learning process and I think it is essential to use it when specifying dimensions. Unless there is a way of displaying as you go the length of a line which I am not aware of in DraftSight, how can you using mouse only commands draw a line of specified length and to an accuracy of say 0.001"? Brian By using the offset function. A proper CAD user doesnt draw a drawing, he builds it.
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Post by Roger on Jul 24, 2014 7:01:02 GMT
DraftSight has mouse commands and the command line. Being new to CAD I had no diffulculty in embracing the command line as part of the learning process and I think it is essential to use it when specifying dimensions. Unless there is a way of displaying as you go the length of a line which I am not aware of in DraftSight, how can you using mouse only commands draw a line of specified length and to an accuracy of say 0.001"? Brian I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. To me, a command line is a permanent place on the screen where all of the instructions to control the program are entered. That's how the first generation programs all worked. On mouse driven programs like Alibre, the moment you start drawing a line for example, little boxes pop up next to the line where you can enter the length and/or the angle if you want to. That creates the line at that length, but it's not fixed at that. You can then add a dimension to it and change it if you want. Smart programs build relationships between the lines so that if you draw a rectangle for example, and then change the dimension of one side, the other side moves and so does the line at the end. In other words, there's a sort of intelligence built into the part which becomes very useful when you want to change something. Here's an Alibre tutorial that simply explains what constraints are all about and you've probably got similar tools in your CAD package. They are fundamental to turning what otherwise is just a series of separate lines, into something a lot more useful. I think you'd agree that if you move a connecting point where two lines meet, it's reasonable to expect both lines to move. This only happens if they are constrained to always be coincident. This happens automatically when the sketch is built and you take it for granted. All of the other constraints area a logical extension of that basic idea. I hope that hasn't confused you even more. The tutorial says it all far better than I can.
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