Stainless fire grates.

[baxterwood]

I have seen these for sale through the likes of Blackgates, the type with each bar of a triangular section, has anyone had any success over older type flat bar section gates at all? and furthermore has anyone noticed any better boiler steaming capabilities too?
I would appreciate any thoughts in order to get my Don Young 'Glen' to steam better!

Regards all,
Peter

[SteveW]

Peter,

Bought an SS grate for the club Sweetpea expecting better service than the cast iron version. It didn't last long, just about managed one afternoon of public steaming. That said I'd got another cast grate and that got wiped out on the next public afternoon.

Think it was the coal we were using at the time. It generated a lot of clinker which easily burnt the grates. The key being to keep cool air around whatever grate you use and to avoid hot spots of molten slag.

I recall the cast grates being cheaper than the stainless you describe so we voted with our money.

[jma1009]

hi peter,
i think the spacing of the firebars far too narrow on the type you describe. 3/32" wide stainless strip with 5/32" wide gaps is ideal for your GLEN especially as coal isnt what it was like some years ago. and yes, ive used the blackgates/norman spink type.
cheers,
julian

[Deleted]

Hello PETER}---The grates on full-size have a taper cross-section to prevent anything getting jammed in the spaces...From a design point of view the grate is graduated in terms of % area available for air flow ( the important point for obtaining complete combustion) so a grate with gaps the same width as the bars is a 50% grate...What JULIAN is saying here is the coal available these days requires more air for it to burn with any degree of heat release than before thus your air gaps need to be bigger..(62% in his case)...The down side is the coal lumps will now have to be slightly bigger in order to get any heat out of them before they fall through into the ashpan.........Personally I prefer to keep the 50% grate and fire a thinner bed, small lumps and more often.....almost tending towards a "Flash" type of burning such as with coal dust for example ( Dust being the ultimate "small lumps" if you will).....The smaller the lump the greater TOTAL surface area exposed and thus the quicker the coal will ignite and burn producing more power ( Power being the RATE at which work is done ).................................... BAXTERWOOD, have a look at your total Smokebox sealing..In particular the boiler barell fitting and where the blastpipe enters through the bottom part ( Sometimes there's a waste-plate fitted )......Any partial loss of vacuum here will have a detrimental effect on boiler steaming ability as will poor blast pipe alignment....Clean your tubes out before each running session and run a stiff brush around the door (and ring) before closing it... Check that the grate fits up inside the foundation ring area such that ALL air is evenly distributed across the whole grate area..

[albert]

Hello,
The Spink type SS grates are actually used in screens to grade material, the Coal Board used them for coal grading. Norman got the grid from the manifactuare very cheap as it was waste at the beginning and end in a production run.
I have used it with good results, early burn out is usually bad firing, getting a hole in the fire, same with cast iron.

Albert

[jma1009]

just a small clarification re alan's post, it isnt that i think the coal these days needs more air (you can easily have too much air) more that the coal when burnt doesnt disintegrate into small ash anymore. it therefore clogs up the grate as burnt fuel.

i get exactly the same problem on my domestic lounge coal burning stove that has insufficient gaps between the firebars.

a burnt grate usually indicates insufficient space underneath where ash has fallen through and got trapped.

there is a SMEE standard for loco firegrates that appears to be little known. the bars are as thin as the norman spink/blackgates stainless type, but wider spacing eg. 1/16" firebars and 1/8" spacers, or 3/32" bars and 5/32" spacers.

if you make your own grate then it can be made to fit exactly the firebox with a bit of an allowance for distortion plus can be fitted securely to the ashpan if this drops down. one of the problems with the norman spink/blackgates type grate is that rarely will it fit perfectly width-wise, plus is extremely difficult to fit securely to the ashpan often resulting in much cursing when trying to assemble same.

i agree with alan that there is a tendency to use uneven lumps of coal that are too big which does not give optimum combustion characteristics.

clinker is generally a result of the fire being forced too much, though this also depends on the quality of the coal.

albert, that is very interesting where norman got his stainless stuff from. i had often wondered where it came from!

cheers,
julian

[Deleted]

Just some additional info}------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and if you read the first letters from top to bottom then that's how as a trainee fireman I used to remember it }---- NO CASH !!...Also you can see that approx. 25% of what you shovel onto the grate is not going to actually burn as its' the CARBON content that is the fuel itself....(have a look at those Nitrogen and Ash figures = 11.5% that does absolutely nothing towards producing the energy required).........Nitrogen goes straight through and up the chimney whilst the Ash just gets in the way.....Iron Pyrites ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrite ) can be seen as Clinker when firing ( Looks like a treacle on the end of the Priker bar) or solid grey/brown matter within the ash or clogging the firebars when disposing..........

[ejparrott]

My Lilla and Lion both have stainless grates of parallel section, approx 50% split bar to gap, and both have lasted donkeys years.

[houstonceng]

Using one on the Welling DMES's Maid of Kent. Must be at least 5 years and no problems running 13 Public Runnings each year plus a few other uses. Must be a minimum of 40 hours steaming each year

[nonort]

Hi just out of interest the original fire bars on a Sentinel steam wagon are hollowed to look like a 'V' in cross section. The idea being that ash is trapped in the 'vee' so that the clinker can't stick to them.

[smallbrother]

On the point of coal, and whether it burns well these days, I am fairly certain that steam coal and anthracite from South Wales is coming from much the same seams as always. It is mainly opencast mining, so the coal should be cleaner with less crap in the mix to bother the washery. If anything, it should be a better product.

Pete.

[Deleted]

We tried some welsh steam coal at the railway I drive at, it wasn't great, certainly not as wonderful as it is said to be, I doubt it is anywhere as good as the old school welsh steam coal.

Ben

[smallbrother]

Apr 22, 2014 19:17:28 GMT @benwetherall said:

We tried some welsh steam coal at the railway I drive at, it wasn't great, certainly not as wonderful as it is said to be, I doubt it is anywhere as good as the old school welsh steam coal.

Ben

Ben,

If it is an issue with the loco running I would dig a bit deeper (so to speak!) into the source of the coal.

Currently there is a bloody great opencast mine in Merthyr which is digging out the best steam coal on the planet using the cleanest recovery methods in the industry.

It would be a great pity if some of this can't be set aside for the steam engine fraternity.

Pete.

[Deleted]

If I recall it was more of a case of a very high chlorine content, chlorine of course attacks copper, not great for engines big or small!

Ben

[jma1009]

hi pete,
whilst the Ffros-y-Fran opencast mining at Merthyr is uncovering the ends of the famous steam coal seams, it isnt being done selectively, and what you end up with might be anything from all sorts of different seams over a large area. some of it ought to be extremely good, but it's very much pot luck as the Bluebell Railway and locally the Brecon Mountain Railway have discovered. supply is also somewhat problematic due as im sure you know due to the planning restrictions imposed. there is apparently a base at Barry Docks where stuff is sent by rail for onwards selling by road, but where it is i have yet to discover!
cheers,
julian

[ejparrott]

We need some decent coal After an hour of running on Sunday I had to pull the Romulus off, I had a box full of nothing but clinker and stone....not a happy bunny!

[smallbrother]

Hi Julian,

I had a desk 30 years ago next to the bloke who set out the F y F mine and it is smack bang in the area of former underground workings of steam coal.

The seams will be uncovered sufficient to provide several hundred (maybe several thousand) tonnes in one go.

Do you know if anyone has ever discussed this with the mine managers?

Pete.

[jma1009]

hi pete,
i havent.
with 2 or more trains a day of 32 large wagons going to east aberthaw power station i should imagine they arent that concerned about earmarking the very good stuff for the preserved railway market, not that you can collect it anyway due to the planning restrictions.
if the Brecon Mountain Railway have given up on it just a few miles away because if poor and indifferent supply (so ive been told) then that's a shame. the bags we had at the club gratis a couple of years ago were quite good, but not as good as the stuff ive got in my shed at home!
cheers,
julian

[marshall5]

We get our Fros-y-Fan coal via Isle of Man Railways and, as Julian said, it can vary a lot. The first lot, not long after F-y-F re-opened was pretty poor but subsequent batches were excellent until the latest batch. My 4" Hunslet was fine on it (it's not choosy) but the 1 1/2" scale locos with narrow grates were struggling at times. The best thing about Welsh steam coal, IMHO, is the freedom from clinker and firebar burning you get with anthracite. As has been mentioned previously the quality varies enormously from seam to seam and in times gone by the 'Big Railway' used to specify not just the pit but also the seam that their coal was to come from. Are any of the small "private" drift mines still operating in the S.Wales coalfield? Ray.

[Deleted]

----------but not as good as the stuff ive got in my shed at home!--------

Stand-by for some "Visitors" then !! LoL.....