'scale' boiler fittings

[jma1009]

the following is a pic of some boiler fittings

top is a gordon chiverton captive valve,
then a smaller version of a captive valve sort of based on don young's blower valve for his 5"g DONCASTER that ive made for STEPNEY,
then 2 'standard' commercial non captive valves of LBSC type
all for 5"g.
the one ive started making (finished apart from the handle) is as compact as i can make it, though might have another go at the body as recon i can shave another 1/32" or 1/16" off the length. it has a 3/32" dia seat and passages. i need to make this particular one as compact as possible as otherwise it will get in the way of STEPNEY's firehole door operating lever. it will have some 1/8" dia thinwall tube fixed to the end screwed into the boiler bush, and bent up from the inner dome bush as a steam take off probably for the hydrostatic lubricator.
cheers,
julian

[Jim]

I must admit trying to get boiler fittings that look and work like the originals and in their proper place on the model's backhead can be a right headache. Making your own fittings isn't all that easy either often forcing one into making some sort of compromise that while it does the job isn't quite what you wanted.

I'll be following this thread with interest Julian.

Jim

[Roger]

I'd be glad of a bit more explanation of the materials and seal details. Are you using 'O' rings, they would seem to be the obvious choice? The little one looks like it's Phosphor Bronze with a Silver Soldered connection on the side. The top one looks superb.

Vince Williams showed me some handles he's made for his valves where there's very little material connecting the outside so they stay cool. They looked good to me but I guess they aren't scale. I must take some pictures of them.

[Deleted]

I'll also be following this thread closely.... boiler fittings are such an important item for getting the right look for the backhead....I'll be doing an awful lot of R&D when I get to this stage...The railwayman handbooks will be of particular use for me as they have nice sectional drawings for most if not all of the components... even the later BR handbooks have mostly ex LNER gear shown.

will be interesting to follow your progress Julian... keep up the good work..

Pete

[wiltsrob]

Morning all

If memory serves Dough Hewson and Dave Knoble (both on the net) sell a range of scale lost wax fittings for the majority of the well known engines like Britannia and A3/4 so on .... they are very expensive but my word do they look good.

I believe they come ready machined .. just open box and fit..

Robert

[jma1009]

this might amuse a few of you as showing the choas i usually work with! i was once told a tidy workshop is where nothing gets done!

anyway almost finished firehole door assembly with the left hand boiler valve fitted above with newly made handle attached. the handle can only be operated with the firehole door partly open! as i propose to use the valve as a steam take off for the hydrostatic lubricator this doesnt cause a problem as the valve is only opened when steam pressure raised on the steaming bay, then closed on return to same.

the above steam valve is only 5/8" from face of boiler bush to front face of the handle, and is a captive valve.

cheers,
julian

[Roger]

Those fittings looks so neat compared to the things on SPEEDY's plans. I'll definitely be looking closely at what you're doing there.
My Dad always worked in chaos, far worse than your bench. It would be no exaggeration to say that you couldn't see the bench at all for the mountain of tools on it. He always said he knew where all the tools were because they were on the bench! I can't work like that, I need to have some space clear because I have so little of it. I have fixed places for everything even if it's a general rule like my box which holds anything that has two handles. I always put everything away and then I know where it is. I've not always been like that, but we had to be at work to make things professional and I've carried on that way at home.

[Deleted]

lovely work Julian... I think the backhead and it's fittings may be my favourite part of a loco.. cant wait to get to mine. oh and you don't want to see my workbench,,, it's a mess just now. Thing is I tidy up after each job, so every few days but boy does it get in a mess over those few days...lol

Pete

[Roger]

There's no harm in leaving out the tools you're going to use again, but I like to have a cull if it's getting out of hand and I'm unlikely to use a tool again. I'm not the most disciplined person in the world so I'd hate to give the wrong impression, if I had more room I'd be a lot more untidy.

[Jim]

It's nice to know others have 'stuff all over the work bench. The funny thing is despite my apparent 'jumble' I do know where things are. As you say Julian 'a tidy work bench is where nothing is done.' and I'm sticking to it.

Jim

[Nigel Bennett]

Cue the "If a cluttered desk is the sign of a cluttered mind, then what, pray, does an empty desk signify?" - attributed to one Albert Einstein

[jma1009]

here's the completed L-H valve for the hydrostatic lubricator steam supply, and body of the blower valve on the R-H side (with blood removed!)
the Terriers never had manifolds/turrets. so to cut down on the size/conspicuousness of that which i will fit (principally for the whistle valve) the blower valve doubles up as a valve plus steam supply for the steam brake. hence the threaded spigots top and bottom. the internal of the valve is dental burred via dremel to give adequate supply to the bottom spigot for the steam brake regardless of whether the blower valve is open or not. in fullsize the blower valve is quite different but decided the scale arrangement was far too fiddly. in fullsize the valve in this position supplies steam for the westinghouse pump-which Stepney hasnt had since the early 1930's.
the spigots on both valves are a variation of the method used by roy amesbury. he threaded and countersunk the ends (blind) then silver soldered to the body then drilled through after silver soldering. mine are 3/16" dia phos bronze threaded 3/16" x 40 tpi. the bodies are milled with flats 3/16" dia with a slot drill. after silver soldering to the body this allows the faces of the 'seats' to be just a few thou below the holes drilled through the spigots saving much space plus ensuring a 'clean' opening of the valve.
cheers,
julian

[Roger]

Super neat and tidy as usual Julian. I really like these practical but miniature fittings, they look so good.

[jma1009]

i havent done much for various reasons recently in the workshop, but saturday afternoon made up a batch of half a dozen (what i call) double connectors for captive valves threaded 3/16 x 40 tpi each end on the outside, then tapped part way through 1/8" x 40 tpi for the spindles. this evening i made 2 dozen 3/16 X 30 tpi union nuts out of 1/4" AF hex brass. when im in the swing of things and once the lathe is set up i can knock them out in 2 mins or 90 seconds each. ive never bought union nuts. if i had a capstan lathe it would be much quicker!
i dont suppose the proceedure i use is of much use to others as it's all pretty bog standard stuff, unless someone says 'yes please'!
anyway i will post a pic of the pile of bits tomorrow!
making the spindles for captive valves is next. most commercial valves had nickel silver spindles until recently. i like them made out of stainless plus stainless handles on the squares as they dont get so hot, though i seem to have 'asbestos' finger tips after many years of driving!
cheers,
julian

[Roger]

I'd be very interested to see a sketch drawing of the parts you're making.

[jma1009]

here's don young's captive blower valve for DONCASTER

don designed some really nice 'scale' boiler fittings.
on the 2 valves ive made so far for STEPNEY the threaded spigots are much closer to the valve seat. i have also threaded the 'double connector' and internal body of the valve 3/16" x 40 tpi rather than don's 7/32" x 40 tpi. the double connector requires some accurate work to ensure concentricity of the threads etc, and obviously the internal thread in the body must also be concentric with the seat for the valve.
if you compare the above drawing with the pic of the 2 standard LBSC non captive valves you can hopefully see quite a difference!
cheers,
julian

[gingerneer]

Hi Julian

I would be interested in details of scale boiler fittings. This is a area I can definitely improve on. What are your thoughts on insulating the handles? The fire door is very tidy, great work.

Will

[jma1009]

hi will,
many thanks for your very kind comments.
i find that if the spindles and handles are of stainless then they dont get so hot. i would never add insulation unless as per prototype. hence all my GWR locos have tufnol handles around stainless innards to replicate the GWR wooden handles.
of course stainless is much harder to work with when creating such parts, but also much stronger too so can be made more to 'scale'.
cheers,
julian

[jma1009]

here's a pic of the 2 dozen (or most of them) 3/16" x 40 tpi union nuts i made yesterday evening plus a few of the 'double connectors'.
they dont take long to make once the lathe is set up.
most of the commercial unions ive come across have marks inside where the tap has been run in whilst the lathe is running and spoil the seat for the rear of the cones. anyway 1/4" AF hex brass, and the unions are 3/16" long.
the blower valve on the right is now a little more complete with 'double connector' plus union nut.
cheers,
julian

[Roger]

They look great Julian, and nice and small. How have you attached the handles to the square shafts?

I'll see if I can get a picture of the cool handles that Vince Williams showed me a couple of weeks back. His were wheel types with a lot of the material removed that connects the rim to the hub. I don't know if any full size locomotives have ones that look like that though.

I've just looked up a few thermal conductivity figures and found these...

Brass 69.33
Mild steel 26-37.5
Stainless steel 304 8.09
Titanium 12.65

There does seem to be quite a range quoted from source to source but the general pattern is broadly the same. Stainless shafts seem to be the best. So if the handles themselves can look like steel, then stainless would appear to be a much better option, and if they need to look like brass I suppose you could always have a go making them out of Titanium.... good luck with that one.