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Post by modeng2000 on Jul 5, 2014 13:55:55 GMT
Are there different grades of stainless steel sheet?
I wonder if there is a free cutting variety like that which is available in rod form. I need some to make up the fire box assembly for my Titch boiler but the sheet that I have is very difficult to work. Perhaps it is just that I don't know how to cut and shape this material but it seems to be very hard to saw or file.
John
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Post by digger on Jul 5, 2014 16:03:55 GMT
A good source of stainless steel sheet, albeit pretty thin, can be obtained from kitchen ware I had a stainless steel pedal bin, which I cut up, this grade of stainless steel is usually 18/8 I made press tooling, dies and formers, to press out the cylinder end covers on my locomotives, it appears to work easily, can be cut with gilbows.
Hope this helps
Digger
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Post by houstonceng on Jul 5, 2014 18:11:39 GMT
John
Be aware that if you make any part of your boiler from stainless steel, it cannot be tested and given a certificate by any model engineering society. Consequently, you would, probably, not be able to run it in public except by obtaining your own test, insurance and using your own track.
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Post by modeng2000 on Jul 5, 2014 19:10:37 GMT
Digger, I think the sheet material you mention would be too thin, I'm hoping to use 1.5mm thick sheet to give the required strength.
Thanks Andy for the heads-up on stainless and boiler construction. This stainless is only for the ash pan and associated fittings. I'm sorry I didn't make this clear.
John
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Post by digger on Jul 5, 2014 19:55:32 GMT
I never got the impression it was for the actual construction of the boiler, there are several places on ebay that do 1.2 mm stainless steel sheet in various grades, I think 1.2mm would be a good thickness for the ash pan of most locomotives.
Digger
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Post by modeng2000 on Jul 6, 2014 7:04:30 GMT
Thanks for the replies, I'll talk to the suppliers to see what is available.
John
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neil
Active Member
Posts: 39
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Post by neil on Jul 6, 2014 16:53:51 GMT
There are many grades of Stainless Steel. 18/8 is non-magnetic and can be difficult to work, but can withstand the heat arround the firebox a lot of the cheaper stainless steels are magnetic and easier to work with, but are not good at temperature, some poor stainless steel can even rust, beware.
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Post by modeng2000 on Jul 6, 2014 17:50:39 GMT
Thanks Neil, I'll try to sort something out this week bearing in mind there is more than one kind!
John
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 6:23:05 GMT
Seems a lot of expense etc ...Why not just knock out a couple of pans in 2mm mild steel and let them rust as per the full size ??...Much cheaper as well..
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Post by modeng2000 on Jul 7, 2014 8:01:26 GMT
I have just checked the stainless sheet I found in my come in useful bits and it is non-magnetic so I suppose that means it is going to be difficult to machine.
So reading the words of wisdom from 4930Hagley, it looks like mild steel it is the way to go!
Thanks for the lateral thinking.
John
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,896
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Post by jma1009 on Jul 7, 2014 8:39:58 GMT
hi john, ive made ashpans out of both steel sheet and stainless sheet. i havent noticed the steel ones rust yet! i do however use stainless bolts and rivets on the steel ones, and where the dumping pin goes add a piece of tube (copper will do) across the ashpan lined up with the holes in the frame as this saves a lot of angst when putting the pin back in. on TICH i would make up a cardboard ashpan first after making the grate, and try and make the ashpan as generous as possible. cheers, julian
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Post by modeng2000 on Jul 7, 2014 8:53:26 GMT
Thanks Julian, that is good advice. There isn't much room for the grate is there! I was going to follow Steve Eaton's drawing for the grate, it seems to be a bit of a trade-off between the fire and the ash. I doubt I'll burn out the great for quite some time.
Toby does not have a dumping pin, the grate would has to be pulled back towards the tender out of the circular fire box to drop the fire. There are two latches that hold the assembly in the fire box.
John
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 8:57:01 GMT
Yes, as per JULIAN. that tube across from one side to 'tother really is worth doing....EDIT}---- mine do rust ie}-- surface only but don't ROT as such....Just remember to err on the generous side with fitting dimensions as the pans will tend to distort a bit....A "Rattling" rather than "Micronic" fit,if you get my drift ( Sorry ROGER, nothing untoward intended---it's just happens to be the best word for this situation !! LoL !!).......
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Post by locoman on Jul 7, 2014 20:26:50 GMT
If stainless steel boilers - or any boilers containing stainless steel as part of the pressure vessel are not acceptable in the UK, why is it that they are acceptable in Holland/Belgium/Germany. Please - no rhetoric - just reasons. I have raised this matter some years ago and have yet - as now - had a sensible, logical, reply.
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Post by ejparrott on Jul 7, 2014 21:34:26 GMT
Many of us are asking the same question, I'm told the usual ME insurer's won't cover them therefore the federations don't allow the testers to certify them.
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bhk
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 458
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Post by bhk on Jul 7, 2014 23:48:54 GMT
If stainless steel boilers - or any boilers containing stainless steel as part of the pressure vessel are not acceptable in the UK, why is it that they are acceptable in Holland/Belgium/Germany. Please - no rhetoric - just reasons. I have raised this matter some years ago and have yet - as now - had a sensible, logical, reply. I'll stick my neck out here. Looking at the NZ situation. NZ and OZ share many standards but the miniature boiler code for duplex steel boilers is not one of them. My understanding of the situation is that the underwriters are not happy with the lack of weld procedure in the code and are not content with only referencing a industrial code. Further weld prep and weld inspection , again this is all covered through well standing industrial codes This is of course a load of crap, but word is that the one of the people involved in putting the case to the underwriters was already preconceived that it should not be allowed and thus presented the case with a very negative view. Its a most frustrating situation for so so many.
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Post by Roger on Jul 9, 2014 22:00:47 GMT
I'd be interested to know what the general attitude to verifying correct welding procedures and materials is in the countries that allow them. Is their system as lax as it is here for copper boilers? I very much doubt it. I can't see it being allowed here unless a welder is certified to carry out the process and is prepared to issue a document to say the work has been carried out to a particular standard. Are there enough people interested in doing this to push it forward? Probably not. The copper boiler is much more appealing to my eyes and I suspect to a lot of others too. I can see the reasons for wanting to do it, but you'd probably have to hand over a lot of the build to a specialist and that's not something I'd want to do personally.
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bhk
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 458
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Post by bhk on Jul 9, 2014 23:41:21 GMT
Hi Roger,
The welding of the duplex steel is a highly skilled process indeed and nothing you would undertake at home.
Even as a certified welder I would farm this out to a shop who have all the gear they need.
As for inspection of the welding, again your looking at needing a qualified weld inspector to look at these and not a club boiler inspector.
This is basically what I believe the NZ code will end up looking like,
They will be accepted but the clubs boiler inspectors job will be ensure the paperwork from the correct professionals is up to date, rather than inspecting the boiler itself.
Duplex boilers are well proven and are in my eyes the material of choice for anything over 5" gauge
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Post by Roger on Jul 10, 2014 7:18:19 GMT
That makes perfect sense to me. Whether there's enough interest to follow this through in the UK is debatable.
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Post by andyhigham on Jul 10, 2014 12:18:37 GMT
It will never happen in Britain because of six words, the same six words that virtually wiped out the British motor cycle industry and brought the British car industry to its knees.
The six words are "we've always done it that way"
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