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Post by Doug on Aug 7, 2014 11:36:50 GMT
I would love to build a converted Bulleid Pacific does anyone know of any plans for it in 3.5" guage the only plans i know of are for 5" Ariel which is too big. if i was determined to build one and there are no plans how would i go about it? many thanks, Doug ok i have surfed the interweb and seen things......... anyway, i have found LBSC pamela 3.5" loco's which is exactly what i am after however where do i get the plans from?  ??  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 6:59:24 GMT
Myhobbystore? They do most the obscure LBSC drawings, look in the X-list section as well as the LBSC bit
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wiltsrob
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 279
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Post by wiltsrob on Aug 8, 2014 7:27:10 GMT
Morning all
station road steam have a Pamela listed with SR wheels...
this would give you an idea of what it would be like..
Robert
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Aug 8, 2014 8:05:31 GMT
hi doug,
LBSC's PAMELA was his version of how a Bulleid pacific should have been built, and has only 2 cylinders, and predates the actual decision to rebuild the fullsize locos by quite a few years! so dont expect PAMELA to be anything like a re-built Bulleid pacific!
incidentally there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that it was LBSC who coined the name 'spamcan' for the original locos. at any rate the first time the nickname appeared in print was in LBSC's articles for ME.
cheers,
julian
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Post by charley on Aug 8, 2014 8:36:51 GMT
Doug,
I tried some years ago to get the Pamela plans from My Hobby Store but they had lost the originals and the last time I looked I don't think they were listed. Must admit looks a great locomotive on the SRS website.
Cheers
Charley
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Post by ejparrott on Aug 8, 2014 9:46:11 GMT
Why not try and obtain works drawings?
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Post by Doug on Aug 8, 2014 10:48:25 GMT
Why not try and obtain works drawings? mmmm i just happen to know a man,,,,, he volunters at Swanage rebuilding the bullieds i could ask.  |
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Post by Doug on Aug 8, 2014 11:01:47 GMT
hi doug, LBSC's PAMELA was his version of how a Bulleid pacific should have been built, and has only 2 cylinders, and predates the actual decision to rebuild the fullsize locos by quite a few years! so dont expect PAMELA to be anything like a re-built Bulleid pacific! incidentally there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that it was LBSC who coined the name 'spamcan' for the original locos. at any rate the first time the nickname appeared in print was in LBSC's articles for ME. cheers, julian thanks Julian i did wonder why it looked a bit odd and has no diflector plates etc. I dont mind too much about the two cylinder issue as fitting all three would make it a bit cramped in 3.5" to say the least but never say never as i like a challenge. Ariel would be great as its very close to the real thing but 5" guage with my machines just is not happening again.  |
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Post by Doug on Aug 8, 2014 11:03:42 GMT
Myhobbystore? They do most the obscure LBSC drawings, look in the X-list section as well as the LBSC bit thanks Ben i have emailed them but i dont expect a good outcome reading the above coments. |
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Post by Doug on Aug 8, 2014 12:09:11 GMT
Doug, I tried some years ago to get the Pamela plans from My Hobby Store but they had lost the originals and the last time I looked I don't think they were listed. Must admit looks a great locomotive on the SRS website. Cheers Charley I got the same reply, rather stunning really that loco plans could get lost espcially as they sell for £60-120 a set not bad work for a photocopier its a real shame, i am wondering what is in the ME articles if that is the same as Curly's other articles then the plans will be in there anyway. i think the term is "words and music" no idea why. |
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Post by gingerneer on Aug 8, 2014 12:35:46 GMT
Doug The articles for the build start year 1950, issue 102, volume 2543, Page 208 You many not have seen this web page www.bulleidlocos.org.uk/(S(epsyznsfxgj4rirgidnl5lwg))/intro.aspxlots of good information on all the Bulleids and miniatures of them. Pamela is a starting point, but as i recall the fire box is to wide at the top (LBSC simplified the profile of the fire box) I also believe the the Brits basic dimensions were copied from the Bulleid's. The wheel spacing and boiler profile are very similar. Castings wise Reeves sell a set of Boxpox wheels, although they are not quite right (the full size wheel scallops have angled side as apposed to the castings which have vertical side), i have a set and intend to rework them. For the cylinders you could use Helian Lassie castings. While a 2 cylinder would make the build simpler i think you might as well make a Brit, as it would not sound like and run with the smoothness of a 3 cylinder loco. One of the members in the club keeps threatening to start a rebuild Merchant Navy, i know he has been studying LBSC Brit drawings as a starting point. Personally i would like to make an original un-rebuilt in 3 1/2" (before the casing was modified), i keep sketching ways to fitting 3 sets of valve gear between the frames as prototype. So far i have come up with using the toothed timing belts (like the chain drive in the full size) to a separate shaft for the valve gear but with no oil bath. Will |
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Post by Doug on Aug 8, 2014 13:39:50 GMT
Doug The articles for the build start year 1950, issue 102, volume 2543, Page 208 You many not have seen this web page www.bulleidlocos.org.uk/(S(epsyznsfxgj4rirgidnl5lwg))/intro.aspxlots of good information on all the Bulleids and miniatures of them. Pamela is a starting point, but as i recall the fire box is to wide at the top (LBSC simplified the profile of the fire box) I also believe the the Brits basic dimensions were copied from the Bulleid's. The wheel spacing and boiler profile are very similar. Castings wise Reeves sell a set of Boxpox wheels, although they are not quite right (the full size wheel scallops have angled side as apposed to the castings which have vertical side), i have a set and intend to rework them. For the cylinders you could use Helian Lassie castings. While a 2 cylinder would make the build simpler i think you might as well make a Brit, as it would not sound like and run with the smoothness of a 3 cylinder loco. One of the members in the club keeps threatening to start a rebuild Merchant Navy, i know he has been studying LBSC Brit drawings as a starting point. Personally i would like to make an original un-rebuilt in 3 1/2" (before the casing was modified), i keep sketching ways to fitting 3 sets of valve gear between the frames as prototype. So far i have come up with using the toothed timing belts (like the chain drive in the full size) to a separate shaft for the valve gear but with no oil bath. Will Thanks Will i had seen the Web pages i have been dribling over them for over a year now i love the 5" models they have produced from the works drawings such detail  they are some of the best examples of model engineering i have ever seen. I think you are right about the 3 cylinder issue it really wouldnt be a merchant navy without the 3rd. I dont like the Spamcan's at all, for me put Sir Keith Park next to Squadron or Manston and there is no contest, but then i dont like the P2's much either. there is something inherently beautiful about the "normal" loco shape and design IMO. I am getting really keen on the idea of a 3.5" Bullied though, as there just arnt many about and the chalenge looks fun, yes i could build a Brit, black 5, king class, v2 etc etc but i really like the look of them. its just got to be done! (plus i need to up my game quite a bit regarding authenticity/detail and this will help). oh and i will get a good year or so of drawing on cad to boot (good when its too cold in the workshop). doug |
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wiltsrob
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 279
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Post by wiltsrob on Aug 8, 2014 13:42:14 GMT
The other alternative is to get the drawings for Norman Spinks Aireal from MJ EEngineering and reduce to 3.5" gauge...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 15:27:13 GMT
I had a go at scaling down Ariel to 2½" Gauge (it seemed a good idea at the time!) but mainly as an exercise to learn 3D CAD. I incorporated all the corrections for the motion brackets etc. from the Bulleid website as the Ariel ones are completely wrong for a RMN. It's an extremely complicated loco if you want to do it right but could be simplified I suppose. They are lovely looking locos, to me anyway. Doubt if I'll ever build it though - too many other mad ideas to try first! John  |
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Post by Doug on Aug 8, 2014 16:41:38 GMT
I had a go at scaling down Ariel to 2½" Gauge (it seemed a good idea at the time!) but mainly as an exercise to learn 3D CAD. I incorporated all the corrections for the motion brackets etc. from the Bulleid website as the Ariel ones are completely wrong for a RMN. It's an extremely complicated loco if you want to do it right but could be simplified I suppose. They are lovely looking locos, to me anyway. Doubt if I'll ever build it though - too many other mad ideas to try first! John That looks pretty nice John how far did you get with the design? Would that pull someone? Mmmmmmmm2.5" I hadn't even considered that guage. Bet it would be about 19" long in 2.5" |
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Post by ejparrott on Aug 8, 2014 16:44:17 GMT
Our Annie would pull a driver quite happily on Rugby's 1:100, a passenger might be too much though. A RMN with bigger boiler, extra driving axle and a third cylinder might well though
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 17:03:03 GMT
[/quote]That looks pretty nice John how far did you get with the design? Would that pull someone? Mmmmmmmm2.5" I hadn't even considered that guage. Bet it would be about 19" long in 2.5"[/quote]
hi Doug.. I'm sure John will be along soon to answer your question but I think you'll find it will easily pull a couple of people, maybe more...
Pete
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Post by Doug on Aug 8, 2014 17:44:07 GMT
hi Doug.. I'm sure John will be along soon to answer your question but I think you'll find it will easily pull a couple of people, maybe more... Pete Hi Pete just enough power to pull one daft middle aged fella would be plenty lol regards,doug |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2014 19:07:58 GMT
That looks pretty nice John how far did you get with the design? Would that pull someone? Mmmmmmmm2.5" I hadn't even considered that guage. Bet it would be about 19" long in 2.5" Hi Doug, The loco is about 24" long plus the tender so it's quite a big loco in 2½" gauge. My Helen Long will pull my brother and I around Rugby and Chesterfield (with a 1 in 40 on the run up to the tunnel) with no problem and would pull at least one more. The RMN should have no trouble doing the same. Much easier to drive as well with the big wide firebox! The big problem with these small locos is the lack of adhesive weight, not lack of power. I got as far as you can see on the photo but just haven't had time to do any more to it, although I do want to at least finish the 3D model eventually if I can. I'm doing a lot of 3D drawing for the 2½" Gauge Association as well which all takes up time. We wan't to try and draw up every model to prove and correct all the drawings. At least most LBSC locos are pretty basic! The problem in 2½" and 3½" is going to be the lack of castings but most things can be fabricated or machined from the solid if you've a mind to do it. Your new CNC mill would be ideal John |
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Post by Doug on Aug 8, 2014 19:23:51 GMT
That looks pretty nice John how far did you get with the design? Would that pull someone? Mmmmmmmm2.5" I hadn't even considered that guage. Bet it would be about 19" long in 2.5" Hi Doug, The loco is about 24" long plus the tender so it's quite a big loco in 2½" gauge. My Helen Long will pull my brother and I around Rugby and Chesterfield (with a 1 in 40 on the run up to the tunnel) with no problem and would pull at least one more. The RMN should have no trouble doing the same. Much easier to drive as well with the big wide firebox! The big problem with these small locos is the lack of adhesive weight, not lack of power. I got as far as you can see on the photo but just haven't had time to do any more to it, although I do want to at least finish the 3D model eventually if I can. I'm doing a lot of 3D drawing for the 2½" Gauge Association as well which all takes up time. We wan't to try and draw up every model to prove and correct all the drawings. At least most LBSC locos are pretty basic! The problem in 2½" and 3½" is going to be the lack of castings but most things can be fabricated or machined from the solid if you've a mind to do it. Your new CNC mill would be ideal John Thanks John regarding the castings I was thinking the same thing, I have a Black five 2.5" set of drawings and always thought there was no way it could be built as castings are just not available but with my CNC I can now see in the correct scale there would never be a need to buy castings again the five would be very easy to build. I really do fancy a bullied though as they are so rare, you have done some cracking work on that model how did you go about it? Did you buy the Ariel drawings and just scale them down? are there any considerations other than space on a 2.5" loco looking at the plans I have the blackhead is quite simple. regards, Doug |
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they are some of the best examples of model engineering i have ever seen.