Spoked wheels for 5" Slate Wagons.

[steamcoal]

Would like to ask if any knows of a supplier of spoked wheel castings (un-machined) that are appropriate for a 5" gauge wooden frame slate wagon to pull behind my Dinorwic Quarry Hunslet.

I ask first as an individual may have made some for a project and also see mentioned on the Leicester Model Engineers Soc. webpage a description and photos of the very item that a member cast at home. Unfortunately there is no contact link on the site but I would like to ask them about this.

I need 40+ wheels for a rake of ten wagons and have already the wheel bearings holders and have begun the wooden subframe.

If I have too I can cast the wheels but prefer to purchase the blanks. Reeves sell the drawings but I expect there castings could be very expensive if they do sell that at all anyway.

Hayden

[Callum Darraugh]

I seem to remember somebody doing slate wagon wheels in 5" by laser cutting the blanks with the spoke profile in and then machining the outer - Might be cheaper than castings depending on the plate thickness?

Regards,
Callum

[bhk]

Aug 26, 2014 10:56:44 GMT steamcoal said:

Would like to ask if any knows of a supplier of spoked wheel castings (un-machined) that are appropriate for a 5" gauge wooden frame slate wagon to pull behind my Dinorwic Quarry Hunslet.

I ask first as an individual may have made some for a project and also see mentioned on the Leicester Model Engineers Soc. webpage a description and photos of the very item that a member cast at home. Unfortunately there is no contact link on the site but I would like to ask them about this.

I need 40+ wheels for a rake of ten wagons and have already the wheel bearings holders and have begun the wooden subframe.

If I have too I can cast the wheels but prefer to purchase the blanks. Reeves sell the drawings but I expect there castings could be very expensive if they do sell that at all anyway.

Hayden

Hi Hayden,

Surely been in NZ it will cheaper to have them cast locally rather than posting out from the UK

Try cancast is your South Island, they quoted for a set of cylinders for me and where very very reasonable

[e-mail] is there email

Cheers
Sean

[neil]

Hi Hayden
Blackgates do a curved spoke wheel, as used on the welsh slate mines. but it is not cheep.
But
The spoke is curved the wrong way, he curve is not right and the wheel is too bulky, even after machining. IMHO.

I am making some steel slate wagons, I have lots of photos of slate trucks from FFestiniog.
I am in the process of getting a 5 inch wheel cast in steel,for myself.

I have printed a 3D model which looks right from my photos of 2 and 3 ton truck, I have made a silicon mould from it, and made lost waxes from this, the wax does need a little fettling as I am just hand pouring the wax.
These are not purfect but quite close, and will need cleaning up a little on a lathe.
I have found a company in uk who will cast in steel (EN9)from these, but it is about £15 to £20 per wheel with me supplying the wax.



Neil

[steamcoal]

Neil.

I have seen a lot of photos for the wheels and have had CAD done moulds made before. I do not do the design work or 3-D printing myself and generally work in wood for patterns.

Can I contact you regarding the CAD file to 3-D print.

I have a cast iron foundry right over the road from my work. Actually it is the same one mention in the post before your one. Better get off my backside and look into it.

Hayden

[jma1009]

hi hayden,
if you ask Ed very nicely he might take some pics for you on his next visit to Tywyn of the special Padarn Railway transporter wagon which if my memory is correct has in it 4 original Dinorwic Quarry wagons. there are also quite a few other slate wagons in existence from the various quarries (the Ffestiniog Railway has a whole train of restored wagons for it's gravity train).
however most of these wagons are as im sure you know very crude and unsprung and have dumb buffers and might not be suitable for a 5"g club track.
cheers,
julian

[steamcoal]

Julian.

I have plenty of photos and look to re-create the Bala Lake Railway which is depicted in the You Tube video. It is more the look and something to pull behind. I'm not really into pulling passengers but could load up the wagons with something like basalt or slate for effect.

Neil in post above yours is helping me out which is great.

Started my first wagon base last night and need some hard oak timbers milled up. They look simple but there is a bit of work in them. Looking forward to it.

Hayden

[Jim]

I don't know if this is of any help but Slater's Plasticard do 5"g wagon wheels for scale, non passenger carrying rolling stock.

slatersplastikard.com/wheels/5inWheels.php

Jim

[steamcoal]

Jim.

Thanks for that link.

I will await Neils CAD files and go from there. We do have two very good foundries in my town, one mentioned above does exceptional SG cast iron ( even made components for the Bently Motor Car I understand ) and the other does bronze and gunmetal and cast iron, in small runs too. I really need to sort myself out, make the patterns and do the business. Its not like it is a three hour drive each way, just 30 paces over the road from work!

The manager of the foundry is from Sheffield or there abouts originally. They do some amazing stuff judging by what I see sitting out to ship away each day.

Hayden

[Jim]

Hi Haydn,

You're lucky to have such high class foundries on your doorstep, they are getting harder to find here, sad to say.

Jim

[steamcoal]

Jim.

I could spend hours looking at the items that come out the " the place across the road". When I have been over there I often just pick up the finished cast items, look at them and just image what they will finally be made into or become part of. If the ordinary person really knew what they made they would be totally amazed. As I said I believe they made castings for Bentley and compressor crankshafts for Atlas Coopco, before they took there business to India. My fellow model engineering friend use to machine all the test bars made of the parent material for each compressor casting for independent testing. Needless to say he has a good supply of very hi quality SG Cast iron!

I have had for many years two sets of Stuart 5a type engines and they may outlast me but I know they are very fine castings I look forward to making my wheels and should definitely employ my local tradesmen and should value them in an ever depleting industry. 

Hayden

[ennech]

I can supply patterns and castings if you have the basic details of what you want. I produce patterns by CNC machining from my own 3D Cad model

[steamcoal]

Ennech.

Thankyou for the offer.

I will await a CAD file and preview from another forum member and take it from there. Plenty of help comming.

Just have to get the patterns and go across the road to the foundry! So close but so far....at present.

Once again thanks and will keep you in mind.

Hayden

[ennech]

That's fine Hayden. Just finished a pattern today which might be the sort of thing you are after. It's on my facebook page: www.facebook.com/2lwLimited?ref=hl

Eric

[steamcoal]

I have decided to have a go at making a pattern out of wood and filler so I can have a sand cast wheel set.

After thinking long and hard about this whole point of the hobby I see no reason to use the resources I have and to get back to first principles of the hobby.

I have had many offers of help and really appreciate that I need to prove my metal so to speak and actually build something from scratch, figure out the problems and ask the questions. I asked myself...if I cannot make a wheel they what am I doing this hobby for. So I plan to draw it out, make the wooden pattern, with appropriate shrinkage and draft allocations and see what turns out. I will forget CAD, 3-D printing and the like and just design it on the back of an envelope, like the old days.

If it turns out oval, square or triangular I will put it in the lathe and make it round! How hard can it really be.

Don't go away though...I might have some questions that need answering.

Hayden

[ejparrott]

I've just come back from Tywyn, you posted while I was there!

I know a thing or two about Talyllyn, Corris and Penrhyn slate wagons. Design any spoke configuration you like, I'll bet I can find a prototype for it. There is no such thing as a standard wheel design for slate wagons, and somewhere I have a photo of a Talyllyn wagon with 2 or 3 different designs of wheel under it. There are curved spokes which curve in either direction, straight, V - again, both ways, and even disc wheels.

[steamcoal]

Ejparrott

It has turned into an international project again.

I had a CAD file from Neil in the UK and we have manipulated it for casting purposes in Seattle and it will be RP printed by Shapeways in the Netherlands.

I talked to the foundary across the road yesterday and they mentioned the requirement for 3-5 degrees for draft to pull from the mould. We have 3 degrees already.

Once I have the RP printed I will take a silicon mould and resin cast 6 or 8 patterns to go on the board for the foundary which will cut down labour and pour secessions. 

The rim and tread will be machined as per normal techniques and we have the GL5 standard to go from.

The wagon timbers will be some oak if I can get hold of enough and can be left to weather to show the grain. Quite an involved project. I saw on e-bay last week a slate wagon sell for £270.,I passed on that one otherwise I would go broke.

Will post a wheel drawing if I can but maybe p.m you instead.

Hayden

[ejparrott]

Feel free. I can't post any pictures I'm afraid, copyright is all owned by other people, and I don't currently have a working scanner either.

[steamgramps1]

I have just come accross you enquiry re slate waggons. I have just completed one using the model engineer artical. I cast my wheels in aluminium at home using an electric furnice as the temp required is under 700c
If you are still in need of onfo, pm me an email address and I will send the artical to you.

[steamcoal]

An updated post of recent activity.


Here is an update on the project. Posted also in what i have done today.

I plan to cast the copies with a mixture of polyester resin and a mix of fine MDF sawdust to make a composite type filler. My reason is that this combination should reduce the quantity of resin used but importantly reduce the heating and contraction that pure resin exhibits. The normal contraction is 2-6% but as the copies are to provide patterns for sandcasting the strength is not important as they will be fixed to a casting platen.

Anyway I have plenty of opportunities to try new stuff and it is not expensive now. The silicon mould used 0.8 Lb of Alumilite silicon which cost about $NZ 50 ( GBP 23) so divided amongst 5 or 8 pieces is cheap. 

There is a reasonable amount of material on the rim for machining even if contraction is accounted for. There is actually two parts of contraction, first the resin casting which I am about to undertake and then the final SG Cast iron wheel. But you will realise that i guess.

Hayden