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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 13:44:42 GMT
everything helps Adam....Julian has kindly sent me an article by Roy Amsbury from some years ago that's a good read and easy to understand. More recent articles can only help further so yes please I'd love to see the articles.
regards
Pete
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uuu
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Post by uuu on Feb 20, 2015 14:57:37 GMT
What are the team's thoughts on whistles (Julian's mentioned the valves)? The giant cloud emitted by a big whistle under the footplate is a bit of a give-away.
Wilf
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 15:18:37 GMT
Hi uuu ,
If you want to make a real steam whistle that looks and works like the original then you are stumped by the laws of nature . The voice length for a model whistle is the same as for a full size one .
One possibility for whistles which could be small and at least look something like reasonable is reed whistles - basically bits from a mouth organ .
Best I've come up with myself to date is a dummy whistle with a bit of leaked steam for show and an all electronic whistle actuated by a tiny steam solenoid valve .
I have looked at several diferent ways of getting sound enhancement of small engines using electronics . For example - picking up and amplifying the engine exhaust beats .
MichaelW
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 15:18:48 GMT
What are the team's thoughts on whistles (Julian's mentioned the valves)? The giant cloud emitted by a big whistle under the footplate is a bit of a give-away. Wilf I would expect that there's a limit to how small you can make a whistle and get a good enough sound although I haven't experiment with whistles yet I probably will do at some point in the future. One thing that I do plan to do is have a steam feed to the dummy whistle for an effect if nothing else. Pete
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 15:35:10 GMT
Haha...looks like our posts crossed Michael....
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uuu
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Post by uuu on Feb 20, 2015 16:19:12 GMT
....Best I've come up with myself to date is a dummy whistle with a bit of leaked steam for show and an all electronic whistle actuated by a tiny steam solenoid valve ..... MichaelW That does resolve the giant cloud problem quite nicely. I had wondered if anyone had suceeded in burying a resonator tube under the cleading, so the giant cloud comes from the right place. Wilf
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Post by Roger on Feb 20, 2015 16:31:22 GMT
I wonder if there's any way to extend the length of a whistle by doubling it back on itself, maybe more than once to lower the pitch. It's probably too much to hope to get anywhere near deep enough, but any improvement would be good. Obviously Brass instruments have curved tubes to reduce the length of the instrument, but could the sound be bounced round a sharp corner? How about it spiral whistle tube, that could be quite long and compact? I have no idea what a reed whistle would sound like...
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Post by alanstepney on Feb 20, 2015 16:42:37 GMT
LBSC designed a whislte with a "resonator box" that fitted under the loco. Might be worth looking at that to get some ideas.
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Post by andyhigham on Feb 20, 2015 16:49:24 GMT
One of the advantages of narrow gauge, you can make a whistle that works and sounds ok in 1 1/2" scale and bigger
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uuu
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Post by uuu on Feb 20, 2015 16:54:38 GMT
Roger, church organ pipes are doubled back, or sent round corners to fit them in. But they wouldn't have a condensation problem in the u-bends.
Alan, thanks for that reminder. I think I've seen that before - I'll look it up.
Michael's electric idea is cheating, but I like it.
Wilf
PS and apologies to Adam, for drifting a bit off topic.
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Post by ejparrott on Feb 20, 2015 17:06:16 GMT
I have to say I'm rather good at whistle's...don't know why, it's just one of my strengths.
As Michael say's, Physics is against you. If you want a whistle that sounds just like the real thing, then you have to make one exactly like the real thing, size and all. There's a formula for the length which I can give you if I can reach up to my shelf above the PC, I tend not to bother with the maths though.
I have not tried an LBSC resonator box yet, I might do one day. Street Organ pipes are also built with mitres to fit in all sorts of places (another hobby of mine). I want to try an experiment doing the same with a loco whistle at some point...got an idea for how I'm going to achieve it, just need to find the time.
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Post by Cro on Feb 20, 2015 17:16:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 17:56:32 GMT
About the right high pitched squeak for a big (non streamlined) LNER engine!
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Post by Cro on Feb 20, 2015 18:11:46 GMT
ahhh look how that worked out Another update, started duplex valve last night. About hour and half to model the main body and just spent another half hour to add all the fillets ready for holes and scaling. Adam
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Post by Roger on Feb 20, 2015 19:29:33 GMT
Roger, church organ pipes are doubled back, or sent round corners to fit them in. But they wouldn't have a condensation problem in the u-bends. Alan, thanks for that reminder. I think I've seen that before - I'll look it up. Michael's electric idea is cheating, but I like it. Wilf PS and apologies to Adam, for drifting a bit off topic. Yes, sorry Adam... I thought they did, but I couldn't find anything on it on the internet, I'll take another look. I bet there's a name for them. Maybe it's possible to add tiny drain holes or arrange them so they drain naturally. Interesting.
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Feb 20, 2015 21:00:34 GMT
whistles are a bit of a pet thing of mine (apologies, adam!)
all mine have decent working whistles. my 5"g GWR loco has 2 whistles on a pretty much scale whistle valve of GWR type plus the correct notes (see the beginning of the Titfield Thunderbolt film for the correct notes!)
re whistles the gap between languid or disc and tube ought to be considerably less than the usual 1/32" gap to prevent 'overblowing' and jumping up an octave. i make mine 1/64". the maths re length and diameter of the tube is pretty well established, though be careful applying 'organ builder' principles as these work on air at 2 to 4 psi, and steam at a much higher pressure behaves in a completely different way.
most commercial whistles have far too large a gap between tube and languid/disc (to ease manufacture) plus are often of far too small a diameter. we can actually take of advantage of the proportions if correct. this is all a a bit beyond adam's post (plus off topic) and perhaps deserves a whole post itself!
apologies adam for digressing!
cheers, julian
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Post by springcrocus on Feb 20, 2015 23:30:24 GMT
whistles are a bit of a pet thing of mine (apologies, adam!) ..... and perhaps deserves a whole post itself! apologies adam for digressing! cheers, julian I, for one, would be pleased to share in, and learn from, your knowledge of whistles, Julian. If you would care to start a tutorial, I would be an avid follower. Steve
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Post by ejparrott on Feb 21, 2015 8:09:35 GMT
whistles are a bit of a pet thing of mine (apologies, adam!) (see the beginning of the Titfield Thunderbolt film for the correct notes!) cheers, julian Or TR no. 4!
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Post by fostergp6nhp on Feb 21, 2015 18:49:17 GMT
Drain holes in whistle tubes won't work, the wife has a street organ and one of the pipes has a wood screw that holds the pipe in place, it pierces the tube, with the screw in the pipe is in tune, take the screw out and it squeaks. This is a tiny wood screw in a pipe that is about 2" square.
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Post by Roger on Feb 21, 2015 23:07:59 GMT
Drain holes in whistle tubes won't work, the wife has a street organ and one of the pipes has a wood screw that holds the pipe in place, it pierces the tube, with the screw in the pipe is in tune, take the screw out and it squeaks. This is a tiny wood screw in a pipe that is about 2" square. I guess that's why they have little cork pads and sprung covers on Brass Instruments then. Oh well, time to think again!
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