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Post by Cro on Jun 20, 2019 8:32:46 GMT
Hide mallet does the trick nicely! Great work Steve
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jun 20, 2019 10:05:33 GMT
Without wishing to teach grandma to suck eggs, I put a small chamfer on the plate edges to encourage a good fillet when silver soldering.
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Post by springcrocus on Jun 20, 2019 16:55:23 GMT
Thanks Adam and Richard, I will have a look on Amazon and see what I can find.
Regards, Steve
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Post by springcrocus on Jun 21, 2019 17:23:34 GMT
I now have all the pipe for the flues and the superheater tubes so a start was made on drilling the tube plates. The drawing only shows guide dimensions and I found it easier to measure the tube centres on the drawing and transfer these numbers to a larger sketch. CAD users will, of course, just be able to lay these out on the screen and print out the numbers. Because we only get one shot at this, I decided to drill a piece of MDF first and see how well spaced the tubes were.  As you can see, a few of the holes are a bit too close together so I moved the various tubes to suit and entered the new dimensions to the sketch. The rear tube plate was then clamped onto another piece of MDF, centred up and the holes drilled and reamed using the DRO for accurate positioning. The 1.1/4" superheater flue holes were step-drilled up to about an inch and the boring head used to bring them to final size.  After a bit of a clean-up and deburr, this is the other side. The tubes are a tight fit at the moment, which is what I wanted, and I shall skim a few thou off the tubes to create a shoulder for a positive location prior to soldering.  Thanks for looking in, Steve |
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
Posts: 2,861
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Post by uuu on Jun 21, 2019 17:58:01 GMT
Very thorough. This should come out well.
Wilf
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 19:01:24 GMT
Excellent work Steve...  Pete |
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Post by springcrocus on Jun 26, 2019 6:57:35 GMT
The boiler tubes were initially cut using a plumbers pipe cutter and then faced to length in the lathe using a backstop fitted to the rear of the spindle. They were then returned to the lathe and the ends turned down by a few thou for a sliding fit into the two tubeplates.  My ER25 collet adapter came in useful because it allows the work to pass right through, unlike the 3MT lathe fitting. The front tube plate has also been finished.  Here is a trial fitting of the tubes in the rear tube plate and these will be silver-soldered into position at the weekend. I have some 438 medium temperature silver-solder for this first operation.  I'm taking it slow and steady, this is new ground for me and I don't want to mess it up by rushing things. Steve |
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Post by runner42 on Jun 26, 2019 7:41:40 GMT
Hi Steve,
I am sure you are aware already. The last picture suggests that you have used the smokebox tubeplate to provide forward anchorage for the tubes, this is a good move but don't be tempted to silver solder the tubes to this as this is an operation is better left at a later stage, otherwise when silver soldering the smokebox tubeplate to the barrel the different expansion rates causes the tubes to be stretched and could fracture already silver soldered joints.
Brian
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Post by springcrocus on Jun 26, 2019 18:12:19 GMT
Hi Steve, I am sure you are aware already. The last picture suggests that you have used the smokebox tubeplate to provide forward anchorage for the tubes, this is a good move but don't be tempted to silver solder the tubes to this as this is an operation is better left at a later stage, otherwise when silver soldering the smokebox tubeplate to the barrel the different expansion rates causes the tubes to be stretched and could fracture already silver soldered joints. Brian I am aware of the risks, courtesy of, and with thanks to, those who were brave enough to publish their mishaps on this forum. But it never hurts to be reminded of the importance of soldering the boiler components together in the correct order. Regards, Steve |
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Post by springcrocus on Jun 29, 2019 21:34:10 GMT
The boiler strap was drilled as per drawing and held in place on the boiler shell seam under the rachet straps. With the straps pulled up really tight to keep the seam closed, the holes were drilled through in turn with a pistol drill and a 3/32" steel rivet dropped in. Once all the holes were drill and the rivets were keeping the seams together, each rivet was removed in turn, the hole deburred and a copper rivet inserted from the inside as per instructions. The picture isn't very good but I'm half-way through swapping the rivets.  Once all the copper rivets were in place, the barrel was once more placed on the acetylene cylinder anvil and the rivets trimmed and belted flat into the countersinks. The strap was eased to the shape of the boiler at the same time.  The plug was tested in the front end to check that it was still circular and that the front tube plate would still fit. I will now show this to the boiler inspector before soldering in case he has any questions or comments to make. I might place an extra rivet at each end to pull the end of the strap down more firmly. Steve |
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,922
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Post by jma1009 on Jun 29, 2019 21:55:05 GMT
Hi Steve,
It's not a very wide strap!
I would have done double that width!
The strap joint is the most critical part of this boiler arguably. You are going to have to be very very good with your silver soldering to get that all OK at the first attempt!
Cheers,
Julian
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waggy
Statesman
Posts: 747
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Post by waggy on Jul 1, 2019 14:46:37 GMT
Julian,
I feel I must take issue with you over your comments regarding the butt strap and soldering the joint soundly.
You say the strap isn’t very wide, perhaps an explanation of why you’d have doubled the width, rather than a throw away comment that may sow the seeds of doubt with the builder. He may not be as experienced as you say you are?
The strap is indeed a critical part, along with many others. If as you say, the strap was doubled in width, surely the builders soldering skills would have to be extremely good, more material, more heat and indeed more solder to handle.
The builder has given himself the best advice, speak to the boiler inspector!
Now I have no wish to start a row with you or anyone else but I urge you to think of the possible consequence should an inexperienced builder take your comments to heart.
Waggy.
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Post by springcrocus on Jul 1, 2019 21:05:52 GMT
Thank you, gentlemen, for your concerns. Rest assured, I clearly understand the methods required to complete the task. Whether I have the ability remains to be seen but nothing will change. The strap is exactly as per drawing and that is the ONLY thing that matters to me. The two superheater tubes were faced to length in the lathe and then spigotted either end in a similar fashion to the boiler tubes. Because I don't have a fixed or travelling steady - I haven't done anything further with the big steady I made for the smokebox yet - I made a quick bearing and collar to fit in the bore of the tube. This supported the end whilst facing to length.   A traditional centre was used to support the work for the spigots. Thirty pegs of differing lengths were made from 14mm wooden dowel to assist with locating the tubes in the front tubeplate. It worked but was a lot of faffing around.   Once all the tubes were assembled into the two tube plates, solder rings were placed over each of the tubes before smothering the whole lot in flux. Only the rear tubeplate will be soldered at this stage.  I shall heat this up tomorrow so that I can show it to the boiler inspector at the club on Wednesday along with the unsoldered boiler barrel. Steve |
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,922
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Post by jma1009 on Jul 2, 2019 0:55:40 GMT
And I would not silver solder the tubes to the combustion chamber tubeplate before silver soldering up the combustion chamber tubeplate to it's wrapper.
But what do I know?
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jul 2, 2019 6:15:13 GMT
And I would not silver solder the tubes to the combustion chamber tubeplate before silver soldering up the combustion chamber tubeplate to it's wrapper. But what do I know? Alec Farmer did, but what did he know? |
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waggy
Statesman
Posts: 747
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Post by waggy on Jul 2, 2019 7:23:36 GMT
Good morning all,
As I said in my post, I have no wish to start a row with Julian or anyone else, perhaps I should have said between anyone else. Let’s not start a bickering contest please.
Waggy.
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Post by simplyloco on Jul 2, 2019 7:43:40 GMT
Good morning all, As I said in my post, I have no wish to start a row with Julian or anyone else, perhaps I should have said between anyone else. Let’s not start a bickering contest please. Waggy. Agreed. However, having wasted a lot of time and money on my Brit boiler through an incorrect solder sequence - see my 'Boiler Plates' thread, I welcome any constructive input on this subject! My apologies Steve, I will depart your thread now... John |
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Post by runner42 on Jul 2, 2019 7:56:04 GMT
And I would not silver solder the tubes to the combustion chamber tubeplate before silver soldering up the combustion chamber tubeplate to it's wrapper. But what do I know? Julian would it be much better if when you provide a different approach that you give the reason for your comment. One liners without reasons is somewhat emotive and probable not received in the same spirit as you intended. Brian |
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Post by westlin on Jul 2, 2019 16:53:56 GMT
To add some sanity to this forum. Why dont we speak to a professional boiler builder (Helen at Western Steam for example). If they dont know, no one will. Regardless the drawing shows that set up and ive not heard of any boiler failures using this approach.
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Post by springcrocus on Jul 2, 2019 16:55:10 GMT
Gentlemen, this has gone far enough! I have asked the moderators to remove all references to the Isle of Wight boiler inspectors immediately. This thread is about my personal build of my loco, not a discussion about people who give their time quite freely to help others. If any further posts about these gentlemen appear here, I will abandon this thread completely.
Julian, kindly remember there are privacy issues here. A little more respect for others would enhance your reputation.
Steve
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