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Post by runner42 on May 11, 2015 23:21:16 GMT
Hi all,
It is often said that beginners in the hobby of ME should join a club to enable them to gain experience.
I am interested to know what facilities and assistance your ME Club provides to beginners in the hobby.
The opportunity to get exposure to other club members who are more experienced is a given, but the initiative is with the beginner to ask the right question to ensure he receives the advice he requires. So in this regard the beginner needs to gain some awareness of the details of the problem to ask the right question. Then he needs to seek out the best person, cultivate a collegiate relationship with that person to be able to receive that advice. This is a situation that occurs in numerous areas of endeavour.
The opportunity to get exposure to other experienced members can sometimes be limited. Some clubs have open days to attract members of the public to show their models and experience rides for a fee and also have working bees to maintain the track and other facilities in a safe and conducive manner. Because of this business model, monthly club nights by necessity are structured as a formal meeting, where all facets of the club's business are discussed, minuted and voted upon.
So the greatest part of contact of club members with each other is to support the business model of the club and that the beginners growth in the ME hobby may be slowed because of it.
Is it expected that new members are already proficient in ME as a pre-requisite to joining the Club?
Brian
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peteh
Statesman
Still making mistakes!
Posts: 760
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Post by peteh on May 12, 2015 1:33:48 GMT
Hi Brian,
At Northern Districts MES, in Perth we have a mill, lathe, power hacksaw and bench drill available to all members. We have a public run day once a month and a members run day once a month as well as work bee / member workshop time twice a week. There are many highly experienced members always willing to assist those not knowing. When I joined I had no engineering knowledge other than school us of a lathe around 30 years ago. However we have no formal beginners training as such, although often a novice will be taken 'under the wing' of a more experienced member sharing a common goal.
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Post by ejparrott on May 12, 2015 8:42:32 GMT
Rugby is in a bit of a situation with regards this at the moment. Years ago, before we moved to our current site, we had a very full workshop, and it was very well used, by the skilled and the novice, but the committee saw fit to sell it all off in the end, until we ended up at our new site with just the one lathe and a pillar drill, no intention of training anyone, and a total lack of model engineering being done at the club, whereas before we always had projects on the go.
Today, things are changing, but it'll take time. We have a new workshop now which I'm in the process of fitting out. We've now added a bridgeport mill to the lathe, we'll be after a small lathe next. We'll probably be looking for another workshop building then, and extending the facilities to include a surface grinder, small NC machines, and a waterjet cutter. The intention is to re-start our suspended Thursday evening socials as a workshop evening, where training will be given to those who request it, and also to spend time getting on with new club projects to build new locos, which will be for all to get involved with like it used to be, not the select few who think they're above the rest.
As regards driver training, we're also in a bit of a situation, as both our Netta and our Romulus are in the process of receiving new boilers and they are the 2 loco's which are most suited to teaching beginners.
Both aspects will take time though, first of all I need to get the milling machine back together, and get the workshop fitted out so that it can be used!
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 9:26:21 GMT
A very long time ago when I was member of a club we used to have 'active lectures' .
We were fortunate then that club membership included several people who were both active model engineers and who had industrial skills and knowledge .
One of these people or sometimes an invited guest would give live demonstrations of various engineering techniques with a talk over explaining why things were done in particular ways and a bit of backgound theory .
Sometimes in clubhouse and sometimes in peoples own workshops . Often after main talk there was lively and wide ranging discussion and sometimes an opportunity for people to get hands on and try things for themselves .
Then straight down the pub .
I think that beginners who attended as welcome visitors learned more in those 90 minute sessions than they would have in ten years of random visits to open days . They almost always made a few new friends as well .
A variation of the above was the informal meeting in someones workshop to do a task needing several hands or to solve a particular problem or to work on a communal project like making new riding car bogies . Beginners were welcome to attend and often had tools thrust into their hands - in at the deep end .I have happy memories of these often late into the night sessions .
MichaelW
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 9:57:52 GMT
An equally long time ago Prof.Chaddock organised several summer schools for model engineers . Fully residential and based on holidays for the entire family . Extensive College workshops with proper tutors were available .
There was no fixed agenda - interested people could turn up and get anything from basic instruction to use of large machine tools to work on their own projects . Plenty of materials available at cost .
Usually a link with local ME club .
All College campus faciities were available to families and there were some social events and local tours . Officially one week modules but I don't think anyone was too rigid about that - a few people were known to have spent most of the summer there .
Excellent .
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Post by alanstepney on May 12, 2015 18:58:59 GMT
One club I was a member of had a comprehensive workshop and a lot of members learned a lot from the more expereinced ones.
Also it was great for those jobs that are just beyond the capacity of your "home" machine.
Also, people could work together and solve all those little problems that need two heads.
As for talks etc, the radio club I belong to has a formal meeting each month, usually with a talk on a technical subject.
But, sometimes on random subjects.
In recent years we have had beekeeping, Cold War era Civil Defence, Living and working in Antarctica, just to name a few non-radio topics. It all adds interest.
I actually gave one on model engineering, and am due to give one on the railways of Dorset. In addition, I have given several on vintage electronics and valves.
All thse things can add to the clubs activity and make it more viable.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,917
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Post by jma1009 on May 12, 2015 23:28:47 GMT
hi brian,
when i started this lark at age 16, my club had no workshop facilities and the same club still has no workshop facilities. however i was very fortunate in being instantly accepted and allowed to drive all sorts of miniature locos from day 1. a fellow member Fred Wills said i ought to build a Don Young Railmotor and go and see Don Young at Adgestone. so i cycled over to Adgestone and returned with a bag of castings and drawings after a very pleasant few hours in Don's company.
the rest, as they say, is history!
in those days we had in the club the likes of Bert Brock who had run with Bill Carter the SMEE track at the London exhibition for many many years and introduced me to Jim Ewins and Bill, Freddie Dinnis who made his perfect miniature pressure gauges, Arthur Grimmett 'the injector King' and commercial miniature steam railway operator of many years, and John De Bank who made 17 plus miniature locos, plus of course Don Young. as a young 'Nipper' i was given considerable help and encouragement. later on i met Roy Amesbury when at University. annual club trips to the Beech Hurst club at Haywards Heath introduced me to many friends still with us of the highest standards of miniature locomotive running and performance whose ideas i absorbed.
i suspect the above is somewhat unusual, but i have some wonderful memories and learnt/was taught such a lot!
cheers,
julian
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Post by Roger on May 13, 2015 6:43:55 GMT
My experience couldn't have been more different than Julian's which is why it took nearly 30 years to return to the hobby I started at school. The treatment of young members can make or break their interest. Unlike Julian, I never got to put a shovel full of coal in a locomotive, let alone drive one. They were happy for me to take the money from the punters on Sunday though.
Young people are the Jewel in the Crown of the hobby and need encouragement and to be taken under the wing if we want the hobby to continue.
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Post by ejparrott on May 13, 2015 8:25:37 GMT
One thought to throw in, it is now part of the boiler test code that an inspector views a boiler during construction....this cannot be done if the builder is not a member of a club, so if he builds a boiler and then rocks up, then what?
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Post by steamcoal on May 13, 2015 11:56:03 GMT
I would think or at least hope that a prospective boiler builder would have first visited a club and "hopefully" been offered some advice, even if fleeting by a member. It would be a sad day if a potential member went away feeling dispondant with the initial reception to a first visit feeling that the only way is to go it alone.
We all need interested new members even if they plan to build something in the future...or very distant future as some cases may be.
It must be agreed I think that it is a very daunting hobby when viewed from the outside of the fence.
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Post by ejparrott on May 13, 2015 17:25:01 GMT
I would think or at least hope that a prospective boiler builder would have first visited a club Sadly...annoyingly..this is not always the case |
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Post by cplmickey on May 13, 2015 20:47:44 GMT
I built my first boiler (3 1/2 Hall) with no contact with the club (although I was a member) - why would I? I had a full set of drawings so it was built to the drawings, I had no idea there would be any requirement for someone to see it in progress. It's been hydraulic tested by me but then left on one side as other projects have taken priority. I suppose I'm still hoping that the club will test it and accept it but from what's been said above it seems unlikely now. Despite being a club member for almost 30 years I've never seen a "boiler test code" or heard of it anywhere except this forum. How is the average man in the street supposed to know about these things?
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on May 13, 2015 21:33:31 GMT
I built my first boiler (3 1/2 Hall) with no contact with the club (although I was a member) - why would I? I had a full set of drawings so it was built to the drawings, I had no idea there would be any requirement for someone to see it in progress. It's been hydraulic tested by me but then left on one side as other projects have taken priority. I suppose I'm still hoping that the club will test it and accept it but from what's been said above it seems unlikely now. Despite being a club member for almost 30 years I've never seen a "boiler test code" or heard of it anywhere except this forum. How is the average man in the street supposed to know about these things? If you look on the website of the Northern Association they have a copy there. As written, I would argue it doesn't actually rule out a boiler like yours. |
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Post by runner42 on May 13, 2015 23:55:59 GMT
Thank you for your replies, most indicate a positive response that their clubs assist a beginner. Those that provide practical assistance by the provision of a club's workshop are particularly fortunate. It rather depends on the focus of the club, some are outwardly focussed concerned primarily with its standing within the community and others more with satisfying the needs of it's members. But then again it rather depends on the mix of members, if most of the members are experienced in building locomotives then the need for assistance in this area is reduced.
It is a necessity that to build a steam locomotive and operate it that one needs to belong to a club, this is not at the club's initiative it is being imposed by OH&S regulations.
I am interested to know when LBSC was providing his designs to the community, how many clubs existed for builders to operate their locomotives. I understand that LBSC was fortunate to have his own railway so every aspect of his building and operating was in house.
Brian |
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Post by steamcoal on May 14, 2015 2:42:24 GMT
Brian.
I have mentioned before that our club has celerated its 80th birday last year, 1934-
Would be interesting to see what was running back then.
Our club is as you put it "focused on the community" somewhat rather than what the members desire now. I guess this is a function of the demise of the old guard whom would have begun in the heyday of model engineering where "inhouse" running was the focus. It is also interesting to look back at old model engineers issues and there is a definate pattern that emerges and provokes some nostelgic re-reading of past issues. The photos themselves are enough to excit one passion for the hobby and it just isn't like what it use to be.
We have a private track, about the same size as LBSC's Polar Route as it was known. Funny thought that it use to belong to our club as a ground level portable track but now it is in private hands and a raised track! This coincided with the demised of the old guard as it happens and the introduction of birthday parties and revenue gathering activities.
At least we can make us of the old track, and we are happy.
Hayden
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Post by ejparrott on May 14, 2015 8:46:53 GMT
6.2 "...the boiler should be examined at least twice during construction."
'should' is advisory.
7.4 - very long, but essentially make sure the boiler is properly built as per drawings - not very easy on a completed boiler. 'Should' in my opinion ought to be 'shall', which is mandatory.
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Post by runner42 on May 14, 2015 23:50:46 GMT
An interesting read, somewhat light on design requirements placing the emphasis on existing designs which would have been produced and using their assumed pressure tight integrity as precedents for continued use. LBSC designs would have passed with flying colours. For new designs the BI has the responsibility for approving the design.
Brian. |
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Post by heronsgate on May 15, 2015 7:14:26 GMT
A thought since reading the note from cplmickey, surely his observation is a poor reflection on that particular clubs management committee. Boiler Test codes have been widely known amongst practically every 'club/society' in the UK for many years now and a well managed club would surely have circulated information regarding them to each member. So preventing any claim such as 'I didn't, know'. Must say I am puzzled by this.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 8:18:38 GMT
An interesting read, somewhat light on design requirements placing the emphasis on existing designs which would have been produced and using their assumed pressure tight integrity as precedents for continued use. LBSC designs would have passed with flying colours. For new designs the BI has the responsibility for approving the design.
Brian. Hi Brian , You have introduced an important point about assuming that all existing designs are sound . Personally I see no justification for assuming that all existing designs for boilers are sound - indeed I take the opposite view that some of these designs should be treated with greatest suspicion and subject to full evaluation . It's not just the shell strength of an existing design that would concern me - the detail design features of some these existing designs would need a lot of attention as well . Regards , MichaelW |
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Post by alanstepney on May 15, 2015 9:35:48 GMT
This is digressing on to boiler design, which is different from the topic of Clubs assistance to beginners.
Boiler design and the rules pertaining to it, has been well covered over recent months, but if anyone wants to discuss it further, please start a new thread.
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