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Post by gwr14xx on Sept 10, 2016 9:00:59 GMT
I take an offcut of steel flat with a thickness equal to the length of screw/rivet that I want, then drill a hole or holes of the required diameter, insert the screw/rivet and offer it up to the linisher. Works every time - and one block can be used for various diameters.
Regards, Eddie.
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johnthepump
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Post by johnthepump on Sept 10, 2016 9:13:26 GMT
Looks like this one a winner, I hope to see many variants of it posted with photos. John.
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johnthepump
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Post by johnthepump on Sept 10, 2016 9:24:13 GMT
I take an offcut of steel flat with a thickness equal to the length of screw/rivet that I want, then drill a hole or holes of the required diameter, insert the screw/rivet and offer it up to the linisher. Works every time - and one block can be used for various diameters. Regards, Eddie. Hi Eddie, I have used the linisher method in the past, but I'm trying to keep away from fine metal dust as much as possible as I suffer from coughing fits as does my sister. We only need a strong fume or dusty atmosphere to trigger it. John.
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Post by springcrocus on Sept 10, 2016 10:23:24 GMT
I take an offcut of steel flat with a thickness equal to the length of screw/rivet that I want, then drill a hole or holes of the required diameter, insert the screw/rivet and offer it up to the linisher. Works every time - and one block can be used for various diameters. Regards, Eddie. Hi Eddie, I have used the linisher method in the past, but I'm trying to keep away from fine metal dust as much as possible as I suffer from coughing fits as does my sister. We only need a strong fume or dusty atmosphere to trigger it. John. And I shall be trying to avoid burnt-finger syndrome! Linishing anything makes it get rather hot and you generally don't notice immediately. Suddenly, it hurts and one drops everything. Steve
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Post by uuu on Sept 15, 2016 7:12:17 GMT
One of the recurring themes of the Pumphouse is things put off, because of more pressing things coming along. So yesterday evening we put off progressing John's loco, in favour of a swarf guard for my lathe.
I had come armed with some ideas, and a box of sheet materials of various shapes and sizes. John, of course, had other ideas (better ideas). And other, better materials. Behind his greenhouse.
So we set to, sawing and bending a bit of stainless that had been part of the kitchen fittings at the local pub. We couldn't identify the odd smell it gave off as it got hot - even though we know the menu quite well.
Meanwhile we did at least discuss the loco. In keeping with the Pumphouse theme, the riveting of the horns has been put off, in case the fixing of the cylinders is best done first. You see, John's castings are not from the same design as the drawings he has. And in consequence he'll need more holes in the frame to mount them. I had a similar pause-for-thought when it came to Jessie's cylinders - same design at least - but the frames had been marked out when I was using baked-bean tins as a measuring tool, and the cylinders were to be drilled in the CNC mill. So I showed John the aluminium strip I had drilled out as a proof-of-position for all the holes. And we might come to the same method for Edward Thomas. Without the baked beans.
Then it was off the the pub, to see if we could get a better indentification of the smell.
Wilf
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Post by uuu on Sept 18, 2016 15:46:43 GMT
A bit more work on the aluminium blocks - for Slate Waggon pedestals: Again, not at the Pumphouse, but from the Pumphouse. The tops are now finished - this is the bit that bolts to the side/bottom of the wooden frame. The holes in the lower part are just for holding down - they will go in a later stage. Quite a bit of work still to do - pocket in the front to take a decorative roundel. Pocket in the back for the axlebox. Cut-outs in the sides of the pocket for steel wearing suface. Cut-away lower sides. Wilf
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Post by chrisb on Sept 19, 2016 15:07:09 GMT
Nice looking pedestals Wilf.
I made a slate waggon some years ago using the Reeves plans, but fabricated my pedestals in steel and made my own pattern for the curly spoked wheels(I went for 6 spokes rather than the 5 in the drawing)
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Post by johnthepump on Sept 20, 2016 9:59:00 GMT
Talking of Slate trucks, here is a photo of the one I'm building. It still needs the draw gear, the foot rests and the brakes to be made, the seat has been done since this photo was taken, but as with all things in the Pumphouse, there have been others jobs have taken precedent over my own. As I have a little spare time this morning I am going to try and finish Wilf's lathe motor swarf cover, in the hope of doing some work on my own loco Wednesday evening. John. DSCN1435 by John The Pump, on Flickr
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Post by chrisb on Sept 23, 2016 15:23:25 GMT
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Post by johnthepump on Sept 23, 2016 17:25:54 GMT
Hi Chris, That a nice looking job, is the draw gear a casting or a fabrication? John.
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Post by chrisb on Sept 23, 2016 17:53:36 GMT
It is a casting, from my own pattern scaled up from the 5" Dougal drawings from Reeves, I had some extra's done when I had the loco castings made.
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Post by uuu on Oct 2, 2016 15:31:22 GMT
This is more in the nature of a "what I've done today" post. But it follows on from the lathe swarf guard that we were making. Or rather John and I started, and he finished. I promise I'll post a picture as it's fitted.
But there's where today's story carries on from. While I had the motor off, I thought I'd investigate the countershaft, which is rather noisy, especially at high speed. The Pumphouse lathe runs so much quieter - but mine's one of the very earliest Super-7s - it's older than me. So my countershaft has full-compliment needle rollers which rattle, and John's has oilite bushes, which don't. I got it apart eventually. Almost everything is fine - looks new - except the shaft itself. Three of the journals are unworn and smooth, but the right-hand end one is nearly two thou undersize (and not smooth). So I'll be asking John if I can use a pumphouse lathe to turn it down and fit a hardened sleeve on it. Oh, and use the arbour press to get the old needle rollers out.
Meanwhile in for a penny.... I thought I'd better strip the spindle. I had it out when I first got the lathe, and replaced the rear bearings, but since I didn't strip the countershaft at that time, I left the old belt in place. It's time it was renewed.
Wilf
PS Last Wednesday, the whole evening was devoted to loco-building! John's cylinders have a target finshed length of four inches. And the raw castings measure... four inches, or there abouts. So we set about skimming the minimum possible off the ends to get them square, with enough land for the covers. Ideas were discussed for how to make up the difference. A thinner piston perhaps. Although I'm going to propose reducing, or missing the step off the front cover. The rear one needs a register, to keep the piston rod gland lined up, but the front one just blocks the hole.
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Post by johnthepump on Oct 5, 2016 8:47:15 GMT
Here is a photo of the the first casting being machined. 02.10.2016 Start on cylinders by John The Pump, on Flickr I have had problems with my computer since last week when there was an upgrade and it has been impossible to put the photo's up they way I used to
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 11:34:31 GMT
Hi John
Can I ask a couple of questions, please...I note you're using an angle plate, I like this...the two faces that are touching the plate, were they machined square first and if so what setup did you use. Also, this looks good for machining the bore, will you be doing this or will you use the lathe between centre's? I like this setup as it looks very sturdy reducing any possible chatter, plus as my cylinders are blind bores this could be the best way to hold the work for the machining required.
kind regards
Pete
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Post by uuu on Oct 5, 2016 16:55:18 GMT
I'll chip in on John's behalf here.
I think the two faces had been previously machined before John got the castings. They had marks as made by an end mill on them. We checked with a square and they look OK.
The angle plate would have had rough internal edges, I suppose, but it had been machined smooth for some earlier job. We were lucky - you can see in the picture that there's a small step in the far side where the tool wasn't long enough to get into the corner, but the mounting face of the casting missed that bit.
We too had realised that this setup would be fine for boring out. The cylinder is being held up off the table so the tool could pass clear through. But I suspect that the between-centres approach will be used, as the bar for that is really stiff, and the tool in a boring head will have more spring in it.
Wilf
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 17:35:04 GMT
Thank's Wilf...I'll remember to machine the inside of my angle plate first if I choose this method....IIRC it is possible for me the bore between centre's but one end of the bar has to be less than 1/2" dia to fit through the gland nut position. Nick of this parish has kindly offered the use of a very good boring bar if going the mill route. I have no DRO on the lathe and don't trust the dials so may well end up using the mill even though I think that I'd prefer the between centre's route, just seems better in my head.
Pete
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Post by uuu on Oct 6, 2016 16:24:45 GMT
A quick Wednesday night report:
As is often the case, I had brought stuff that diverted attention from the loco - we did the countershaft work for my lathe. And a few electrical checks on my clock charging system.
But we did take a bit more off one of John's cylinders, and did some measuring and discussing. A bit of a surprise! There's quite a long story to tell obout the origin of John's Edward Thomas - and the others - that John can tell in due course. But the key thing is that the wheels are from the same source as the cylinders. And the crank throw is 0.1" less than the drawings. Presumably to accomodate the less-than-generous cylinders. So we can skim off a bit more if we want to. What this does for the valve events is anyone's guess at this stage.
Noting Pete's boring comments (that didn't come out right, somehow)... John thought it might be easier to line up each casting in the mill with the spindle in the centre of the intended hole - measuring off the angle plate, and clean up the core. Then transfer to the lathe. When we did the B1 cylinders, we made up some cones as a sliding fit on the boring bar. So we could see when the bar and the bore were concentric, as they'd touch all round on both ends. John has since used the cones for something else, we may need to make some more.
Wilf
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Post by johnthepump on Oct 6, 2016 22:25:46 GMT
Hi John Can I ask a couple of questions, please...I note you're using an angle plate, I like this...the two faces that are touching the plate, were they machined square first and if so what setup did you use. Also, this looks good for machining the bore, will you be doing this or will you use the lathe between centre's? I like this setup as it looks very sturdy reducing any possible chatter, plus as my cylinders are blind bores this could be the best way to hold the work for the machining required. kind regards Pete Hi Pete, I must apologise for the delay in getting back to your questions, fortunately Wilf has answered some of the questions. I will start with a brief history. I started on this Loco build in 2001 making the frames and buffer beams by 2004. Things then took a back seat due to work commitments until 2009, when encouraged by another member to be involved in the purchase of 3 Edward Thomas 7 1/4" Gauge chassis, wheel sets, cylinder castings (cylinders, valve chests, end covers). As I had already made a chassis, I sold the chassis which came with the set I bought and this got cut in half and re-welded together with the cylinder area removed and the back end welded onto the front making it 2-4-0 instead of 0-4-2. this was made into a petrol engine all wheel drive (clever gearing) loco Western Pullman front end. It was later converted to battery electric and the member eventualy sold it on to another club member. The three loco sets we bought, the gentleman who had started them had intended to make one in Corris form one in early Talyllyn ownership and the third in later Talyllyn. He had made the chassis's with fabricated horns, machined all the wheel sets. the cylinder were machined on the mounting face and the valve face but not angled as will be required. We didn't purchase these loco sets from the builder, but some one who had bought them and had them for several years, before he decided to sell them on. It soon became clear the the cylinders are not the ones that are on the drawings and the mounting holes in my frames are not in same places as on the three sets of frames. the cylinders do not need the backing plate called for in the drawing, but they are also only just 4" long in the rough state and do not clean up to the finished 4" called for on the drawing. Just before the Tuesday gang left, we got to discussing the cylinders and where a few thou could be pruned off, covers maybe and a little of the piston. It was then for some reason I decided to roughly check the crankpin throw and found to be under the 1.5" on the drawing. On Wednesday evening as Wilf has already pointed out we measured it accurately to be 1.4". I can only concluded that the gentleman who started the three builds had put a lot thought into them. John.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 22:45:11 GMT
Hi John
That's an interesting story about your loco...I'd be totally lost not being able to closely follow an established design...even more so when things don't quite add up to the drawing. I'm still very much a novice in the wonders of live steam but I'm learning....I know of a few fellow engineers who are batch building...it impresses the hell out of me...I have a fair amount of patience but doing repeditive work is not my thing...I look forward to seeing further progress on your cylinders whilst taking notes.
Cheers
Pete
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Post by johnthepump on Oct 11, 2016 9:55:52 GMT
Apart from the work on my own loco, Which I'm trying to devote Wednesday evenings to. Tuesday evenings is more orientated to club and members projects. One ongoing project is the overhaul of 5"G. passenger trolley bogies, the first one to come to the Pumphouse was started this time around had been stripped down elsewhere and found have to badly worn axles. The one thing I dislike is the scratching on of numbers, I have known these trolleys since 1973 and the components have always been discretely numbered using 1/16" number punches and they are still there. Another job I was ask to look at last week was to put the recesses in some expansion links that had been water jet cut, so for a start last evening I tried a complete one in PVC. While Milly (that what I call My Micromill ) was doing this, I got on with first end of the second axle for the job above. John. 10.10.2016 by John The Pump, on Flickr
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