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Post by suctionhose on Mar 27, 2017 10:32:23 GMT
I'm drawing a builders plate - work in progress in picture. Ignoring the text, the linework is quite detailed. I'm working off an 1874 photograph.... I have no trouble drawing it in 2D CAD. But sketching it in Fusion 360 is impossible! I'm sure it is possible but the behaviour of lines is so mysterious after 2D I say its impossible! After 2x 3 hour sessions I can't even get a symmetrical drawing with lines that meet. Lines don't intersect. Centres are a whisker off. Constraints are beyond comprehension. Mirroring magnifies problems... I got Fusion 360 because "free to hobbyists". Personally, I think it's rubbish. It shouldn't be this difficult. I'll have to buy something that works. What's the easiest step up from 2D? Or what should I use for this kind of job?  |
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Post by 92220 on Mar 27, 2017 10:59:31 GMT
Like you, I got Fusion 360 because it is advertised as 'Free to Hobbyists'. It's an AutoCAD program and I have been using AutoCAD to produce 2D drawings, professionally, since 1993, and have used all versions up to the 2006 version. I even used it for some 3D work, but Fusion 360 is so totally different, I can't get my head around it either. The drawing environment is nothing like I have been used to in the 2004/2006 AutoCAD 3D. It's totally different, and a minefield to get around!!
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abby
Statesman
Posts: 924
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Post by abby on Mar 27, 2017 13:22:54 GMT
Once again I highly recommend 2D/3D ViaCAD , at about 130 US dollars bought direct from Punch Software online (it's dearer from other parties) for a lifetime license it is a bargain.
There are more powerful tools but it does everything that a hobby user could possibly want , most importantly it is easy to use.
A 3D drawing can be accomplished using a bare minimum of the available tools , but with experience other tools can be used to speed up the process , rather like the rest of the hobby.
A 30 day trial version is available as a free download.
I advise my castings clients to download ViaCAD because using SKYPE allows us to share screens , giving the client much more involvement at the design stage of casting.
By using SKYPE I can also give basic instruction on using the software which gets people up and running quickly.
Dan.
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peteh
Statesman
Still making mistakes!
Posts: 755
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Post by peteh on Mar 27, 2017 13:28:31 GMT
The problem with fusion 360 is having the previous Autocad experience. Although it bears the Autodesk name it does not work in a similar manner. As a drafty of more than 30 years, the last 15 or so in Autocad I also find it ALMOST unusable. With help from others here I have managed some work in it but for a drafty with lots of traditional experience it is not intuitive.
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Post by RGR 60130 on Mar 27, 2017 15:19:25 GMT
I'm pleased to know I'm not the only one struggling with Fusion360. I've used AutoCAD since 2005 but can't really get going with Fusion. The most success I had was pasting a 2d dxf from AutoCAD into Fusion and then extruding it. Even then I couldn't get the dxf pasted in the correct place. As for getting as far as generating G Code which is what I really want to use it for, it could be a long time.
Reg
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sis
Seasoned Member
Posts: 109
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Post by sis on Mar 27, 2017 17:07:40 GMT
I too have been trying and struggling with fusion 360.
Does anyone know of any good courses?
Steve
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Post by Donald G on Mar 27, 2017 18:38:54 GMT
Hi,
I thought it was just me, I have been a user of 2D Autocad for many years then moved to 2D Draftsight when that came and and I have done a lot of work with that great programme. My background was in design in the days of parallel motion drawing boards.
In the last 18 months I have tried a number of the free 3D programmes and cannot get on with any of them. I tried Fusion 360 recently and I have spent around 30 hours trying to get even a good assembly going. I have managed to draw simple components like an axle box and an axle, but can I add them together to make an assembly, definitely not.
I am thinking I will stay with just 2D and leave it to those with the skills for 3D.
Donald
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Post by suctionhose on Mar 27, 2017 19:26:26 GMT
Ok so it's not because I'm stupid then! Thanks for comments and suggestions. I'll check out ViaCad.
As a natural progression from Draftsight would anybody recommend Solidworks for our purposes? Is it expensive?
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Post by bambuko on Mar 27, 2017 21:14:31 GMT
Fusion is only as good as it's operator  Very fine 3d CAD - no problems at all... Like it a lot! |
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Post by suctionhose on Mar 28, 2017 4:49:07 GMT
I cant speak chinese either but a billion people seem to manage!
I have to be missing something with this.
The plan was simple. Sketch the lines same as 2D then extrude features up or background down.
Instead should I draw a blank disk like a flat cylinder and bit by bit cut it away?
Thar inner line work with the arrows is circles elipses tangents etc. Is that too much for one sketch?
I watched a stack of YouTube's and tutorials last time - the bloke in his garage was the best although fusion crashed before he finished - so something is fundamentally wrong with my approach to the job. (Which seems so simple!)
As well as viacad I was looking at sketchup today. Looks logical. Any thoughts?
Also saw commentary on "engineering users" vs "organic users". The first are people that work to dimensions the second are people who push shapes around till they look right.
Maybe fusion suits the latter? I don't like giving up so if you have any pearls of wisdom that might give me the lightbulb moment please dont hold back!!!
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jasonb
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,189
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Post by jasonb on Mar 28, 2017 7:11:22 GMT
I would have assumed there is a button somewhere to make each circle concentric to the first circle, or in the program I use it will generally do it by itself provided you start the circle near the centre, the curser actually changes to a cross when it knows you are hovering over an intersection/ctr point. As for actually drawing it you have a couple of options - Draw a basic disc, draw circles and outer text and cut away to a depth, draw shape and inner text thencut away to depth - Draw thinner disk, draw circles and extrude up from surface, draw shape and extrude up from surface - Draw in cross section from ctr out to one side this would be thrrough main diac and circles then rotate extrude about ctr point, this wll ensure all is concentric, the draw the decorative part and extrude up from teh surfcae, ditto letters. As for the decorative bit I would draw that one side of the ctr line and then mirror it. I use AlibrePE which has gone through a few name changes, It is basically their full blown program with some bits removed but I have found it does all I want, you can get a two week free trial, costs about £130GBP www.geomagic.com/en/products/design/overviewI also had a job producing anything when I tried F360 but got on fine when I first started to use Alibre. |
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Post by atgordon on Mar 29, 2017 0:28:51 GMT
I'm drawing a builders plate - work in progress in picture. Ignoring the text, the linework is quite detailed. I'm working off an 1874 photograph.... I have no trouble drawing it in 2D CAD. But sketching it in Fusion 360 is impossible! I'm sure it is possible but the behaviour of lines is so mysterious after 2D I say its impossible! After 2x 3 hour sessions I can't even get a symmetrical drawing with lines that meet. Lines don't intersect. Centres are a whisker off. Constraints are beyond comprehension. Mirroring magnifies problems... I got Fusion 360 because "free to hobbyists". Personally, I think it's rubbish. It shouldn't be this difficult. I'll have to buy something that works. What's the easiest step up from 2D? Or what should I use for this kind of job? Deja vu part duex! 3D CAD takes time ... pick your poison and stick to it. Whatever you choose, it will be a learning experience: the key is how easily can you get good reliable help that keeps you going as you learn. You can bellyache on MECH (and as you have seen, not much help but a lot of other pepto-needing users who will commiserate with you), or you can use the resources that are provided by F360 (or your 3D package of choice). Verbal hand wringing and moaning ain't going to do a thing to help you on forums such as this: you have seek help from the community that supports your chosen package ... that's why choosing a package that has a really active and supportive group of users is so important. F360 has one of the most active forums, heavily supported by Autodesk product specialists (for free, not a subscription plan in sight). To use it, it does mean owning up to being lost (just as you have done so here), they will give you a lot of help if you ask your questions clearly, showing what you are trying to do, and then "sharing" your f360 drawing attempt (File [folded corner icon] > share > share Public Link). In the meantime, share with us all the F360 public link showing what you have done so far with F360. I'm not a F360 expert, but this looks pretty simple to me, unless the ovals with curlicue entries are very exactly dimensioned. |
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Post by suctionhose on Mar 29, 2017 2:25:39 GMT
Thanks Tony. Sound advice I'm sure.
(though it does keep you afloat knowing you're not alone - damn all negative reveiws get published)
I haven't given up yet! I think trying to do much in one step is not helping. Gonna break it up into smaller steps. The timeline is there to travel back and forth.
One PM received eluded to similiar problems to what I'm experiencing being snaps not quite closing, minutely but sufficient to ill define an area.
Correcting these discpnnects one at a time mucks up the line work. Like suddenly it just goes bonkers for moving a point a couple of thou! I'm hoping that smaller steps will help that too.
Anyway thanks for the encouragement. How's the cyber simplex?
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Post by atgordon on Mar 29, 2017 5:20:51 GMT
Share the link and let's all help!
Constraints are powerful but easy to over constrain since F360 has a lot of default constraints (which causes most of the problems).
You're not shy, are you?
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Post by suctionhose on Mar 29, 2017 5:31:32 GMT
Share the link and let's all help! Constraints are powerful but easy to over constrain since F360 has a lot of default constraints (which causes most of the problems). You're not shy, are you? No not shy. Like to be independent. If I can work out wot to do I'll share. Wait and see! |
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jasonb
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,189
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Post by jasonb on Mar 29, 2017 7:08:36 GMT
I wonder if those that have said there is no problem with F360 or that drawing the part is easy could share with up how they would go about placing the text and getting it to follow the curve and be nice and evenly spaced. Its not something I can easily do in Alibre/Geometric but I have discussed with Ross via e-mail how I would go about the tackling the central decoration.  |
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Post by bambuko on Mar 29, 2017 10:27:50 GMT
Not the only method, possibly not the best, but I thought useful for what you are doing: import the photo of nameplate:  sketch the plate:  sketch the letters:  extrude as necessary:  and etc, etc, ... You could if you wanted (for example) import your 2d profiles... to do the same You could do it in many other ways... so stop whingeing and start learning! As I've said before after three hours of fumbling without taking any time to learn properly you are dismissing perfectly decent software. and the answer - it's you not the software |
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Post by suctionhose on Mar 29, 2017 12:10:00 GMT
Bambuko
That's a clever idea!
Fair comment about not whinging etc. I deserve it on some days. Tonight I practiced techniques much as Jason showed me (which is not so different to what I was doing before). Made progress! Will succeed!
Proved without a doubt that working with ellipses is root cause of my open snaps. The software has no trouble snapping tangents to circles but does not do it to ellipses. When I go trim, the line turns red goes past the intersection point in some cases. When you zoom right in to see what the problem is it shows up and cannot be snapped to the ellipse. Lines go crazy and the program crashes.
This I am absolutely certain of after tonights play. So yes, me of course but a little bit software too!
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Post by bambuko on Mar 29, 2017 12:49:05 GMT
...The software has no trouble snapping tangents to circles but does not do it to ellipses... You mean like that:  an ellipsis, a straight line and a fillet between them?  |
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jasonb
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,189
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Post by jasonb on Mar 29, 2017 14:16:00 GMT
That line is not tangental to the elipse, these are. Luckily my software will place teh line on a tangent to the curve so I vcan easily trim from one side to the intersection.  The drawing around an image method is OK if you have a good photo to start with, having seen what Ross has to work with which is a grainy old B&W image taken at an angle where it is hard to even read some of the text makes things a lot harder. Also not as easy to draw the letters with curves than nice straight lines. Infact I think the way we have both done it by using the softwares fonts and rotating the individual letters to a suitable angle is a lot quicker than trying to draw around the text. The use of something like Inkscape has been suggested where a DXF or JPG of the letters can be imported and then extruded but then you still need another program to produce the text for the DXF or JPG. |
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