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Post by terrier060 on Nov 13, 2017 10:53:54 GMT
Thanks Both - this is where I appreciate your experience. The reason I have been looking at oxy-propane is that I watched Tim at Cheddar Valley Steam silver solder one of my dome fittings, and he made such a neat job of it without all the general heat required using conventional torches where the whole job gets red hot. I was hoping with oxy-propane after general heating of the saddle I could run along the joints with oxy-propane rather than the whole job bright red? What do you think? More local control? I am not too worried about the cost - it is my hobby after all and I don't drink to excess!! If I go the oxy way would the cylinders at the following link be suitable? www.hobbyweld.co.uk/products/oxygen/Ed
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Post by bambuko on Nov 13, 2017 11:13:45 GMT
I have both Sievert for silver soldering and oxy-propane for brazing. Given a choice, I would also use oxy-propane brazing for this job. This is my setup: You will notice the same bottle as in your post.
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Post by terrier060 on Nov 13, 2017 15:53:32 GMT
Would you object to giving me the make and model of your other equipment i.e. spark arresters, regulators, and a suitable torch and nozzle set for fairly fine silver soldering. You are obviously now satisfied with them with your experience. I believe it is possible to set the flame for warming before concentrating the heat?
I have the next size up propane bottle from the one you show in your picture.
I like your trolley.
Ed
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Post by bambuko on Nov 13, 2017 16:50:11 GMT
Would you object to giving me the make and model of your other equipment i.e. spark arresters, regulators, and a suitable torch and nozzle set for fairly fine silver soldering... Ed no problem at all, oxygen: I run oxygen at around 10 to 12 psi and any regulator should take care of it (Wescol is doing fine here). It's the propane (which I run at around 4 psi) that requires better quality regulator. What seem to happen is that as you start using the torch, cooling propane slows the rate of flow and your "average" regulator don't seem to cope. It's fine once you get going, but I found the faffing at beginning annoying, hence my use of (much more expensive Old "pros" just crank up the pressure at the bottle and control everything at the torch end... I wanted something better, so I bought Harris 801-4P (btw - you don't need two gauge version, since propane remains liquid in the bottle). As far as the torch is concerned, I have started with bog standard lightweight welding torch: but they tend to be a bit temperamental as far as the lighting up goes. Since, I have discovered these beauties: www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding-Supplies/Multi-Jet-Nozzles.htmlYou will have to make your own tips if you want to use them with your lightweight torch, like so: but they are a lot easier with propane than the usual welding tips. Showing before and after the mod: If money is no object, I love these little US torches: top - typical lightweight torch (UK English - blowpipe, torch is an Amercanism btw) bottom Uniweld A-71 but then you into a whole lot of sourcing problems with US threads... My personal hobby horse is the weight of the hoses. Standard UK 6mm ones are suprisingly heavy if you want to do something intricate and you are not built like a scrapyard merchant gorilla. These are great: www.weldingdirect.co.uk/micro-bore-hose-set-with-g38-fittings--open-ends-11325-p.aspWelding Direct will fit them for you with any endings you might desire. Any more questions - just ask
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Post by 92220 on Nov 13, 2017 17:22:47 GMT
Hi Ed.
I use both propane and oxy-propane, though the Sievert torch rarely gets used as the oxy-p is so much easier. Your idea for using oxy-p for silversoldering the smokebox saddle should would work fine. I used oxy-p for my saddle and it was no problem. I also used it for the loco dragbox which is made up of 32 separate sheet steel parts. Again, no problems. I just allowed a 1/16" machining allowance on each mounting face. As long as you expect a small amount of distortion, and allow for it in machining allowances, you shouldn't have a problem. If you do go for oxy-p, get a torch with a set of nozzles from No.1 to No.10. You will be able to use the No.1 for small precision work, and the No.10 for welding chunks of 3/8" steel. That Hobbyweld site looks good. Their oxy price is not much different to the BOC oxy I use. Looking at their agents websites, you should be able to get everything you need from your local agent.
Bob.
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Post by 92220 on Nov 13, 2017 17:35:42 GMT
Would you object to giving me the make and model of your other equipment i.e. spark arresters, regulators, and a suitable torch and nozzle set for fairly fine silver soldering... Ed no problem at all, oxygen: I run oxygen at around 10 to 12 psi and any regulator should take care of it (Wescol is doing fine here). It's the propane (which I run at around 4 psi) that requires better quality regulator. What seem to happen is that as you start using the torch, cooling propane slows the rate of flow and your "average" regulator don't seem to cope. It's fine once you get going, but I found the faffing at beginning annoying, hence my use of (much more expensive Old "pros" just crank up the pressure at the bottle and control everything at the torch end... I wanted something better, so I bought Harris 801-4P (btw - you don't need two gauge version, since propane remains liquid in the bottle). As far as the torch is concerned, I have started with bog standard lightweight welding torch: but they tend to be a bit temperamental as far as the lighting up goes. Since, I have discovered these beauties: www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding-Supplies/Multi-Jet-Nozzles.htmlYou will have to make your own tips if you want to use them with your lightweight torch, like so: but they are a lot easier with propane than the usual welding tips. Showing before and after the mod: If money is no object, I love these little US torches: top - typical lightweight torch (UK English - blowpipe, torch is an Amercanism btw) bottom Uniweld A-71 but then you into a whole lot of sourcing problems with US threads... My personal hobby horse is the weight of the hoses. Standard UK 6mm ones are suprisingly heavy if you want to do something intricate and you are not built like a scrapyard merchant gorilla. These are great: www.weldingdirect.co.uk/micro-bore-hose-set-with-g38-fittings--open-ends-11325-p.aspWelding Direct will fit them for you with any endings you might desire. Any more questions - just ask Hi.
Sorry I don't know your name. That link to the micro hoses is brill. Thanks. I use standard hoses and often curse their stiffness! I shall have to get a set, from our local Hobbyweld stockist, next time I'm in Cheltenham. I'm curious though. Why the conversion of the copper welding nozzles? I use standard No.1 to No.10 nozzles with no problems. What is the advantage of the conversion, and where do those nozzle ends come from?
Bob.
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Post by bambuko on Nov 13, 2017 17:56:41 GMT
My name is Chris (usually know as bambuko) You will not get the micro hoses from "...local Hobbyweld stockist..." Until very recently you could only get them from US. The only supplier (as linked in my post) in UK afaik, is Welding Direct, link below: www.weldingdirect.co.uk/hoses-562-c.aspYes, I have been using standard nozzles as well and in the absence of anything better, would have carried on quite happily, but having tried the new nozzles I am converted. "Normal" nozzles can be temperamental in use with propane. New ones are much more easy and reliable in use. Originally developed for jewellery trade. They are available from US, link below: www.paigetools.com/Also available (cheaper for once) in UK from Welders Warehouse (as linked in my post), link again below: www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding-Supplies/Multi-Jet-Nozzles.htmlUnfortunately they only fit proprietory brazing torches available from Welders Warehouse (hence my bodge/mod) What I'd also recommend is quick coupling in hose lines to allow quick connect of various torches. Here is my implementation: also you can see direct comparison of 6mm hoses next to 3mm hoses.
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Post by 92220 on Nov 13, 2017 19:18:28 GMT
Thanks for all that info Chris. Extremely helpful! I will definitely get those micro hoses. I've also got an Aga jewellers micro weld torch with no hoses. Maybe I can get some from Noz-all and get that working too. I'll also get a couple of those jets and try a conversion like you show in your post. Noz-alls of Cheltenham supply a number of different micro hoses, all 3mm bore. They also list Micro bore hoses with American A fittings.
I've just looked up the Noz-alls website. It's actually weldingdirect anyway, so that solves the mystery!
Bob.
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Post by terrier060 on Nov 13, 2017 19:31:35 GMT
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Post by bambuko on Nov 13, 2017 19:46:20 GMT
Hi Ed, There are few potential issues with this kit. - The thread on the torch handle (I believe) is not the same as on all the usual UK lightweight blowpipes(torches) so you will be stuck with this brand only... You will not be able to use standard mixers and nozzles with this torch afaik - Other issue is the regulators - they appear to be Welder Warehouse branded (i.e. made in PRC with just the label stuck on them) - don't know how good they are. - As mentioned previously - they are supplying standard 6mm hoses, which are no problem if you are fit and very experienced, but I know that when I started these bloody things were pain (hence my recommendation to use ligthweight ones). Once you become proficient it will not matter so much. I am using Welders Warehouse multi-jet nozzles and I am very happy with them - tested and approved. I know what I'd do but as they say YMMV
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Post by terrier060 on Nov 13, 2017 20:40:35 GMT
Thanks Chris and Bob. I think all the info you have given will be useful to many members of this forum. It has certainly given me something to think about. I note that there are even smaller torches that jewellers use. Between the pair of you, would you say it is useful to have both the conventional and multi jet nozzles? I will certainly invest in the lighter hoses. Ed
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Post by bambuko on Nov 13, 2017 21:09:58 GMT
Start with conventional nozzles. They are cheap as chips and readily available (and perfectly usable). You can always add others later...
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Post by terrier060 on Nov 15, 2017 22:55:58 GMT
I should have asked for silver soldering should I wear welding goggles or just safety glasses?
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Post by bambuko on Nov 15, 2017 23:30:17 GMT
I should have asked for silver soldering should I wear welding goggles or just safety glasses? Regular welding goggles will far too dark. You will want some darkened safety glasses - some people swear by didymium safety glasses, but I am happy with just dark glasses 😂
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Post by terrier060 on Nov 16, 2017 12:51:19 GMT
Thanks Chris - I ended up getting mostly the same as you except I could not get a Harris propane regulator so bought a Victor Edge one. The stuff arrived the next day - very efficient - not like trying to order from Macc Model Engineering Suppliers. Can't seem to get hold of the owner Joe - it surprises me he does any business! Couple of questions - I have a great number of photographs which I am happy to supply copies of for anyone building a Terrier, but I do not have any of the underside of the running plates to show how they are supported. It is difficult to work this out from Stroudley's drawings. I know they are fixed to the T-pieces which run along the top of the frames, and the outside are supported by the valances, but there must be some cross-pieces? The other item is the cast-iron brake shoes on the A1X. The chap who did all my casting has sadly died, and I wonder if anyone has Don's Newport drawings for the brake shoes and whether the castings are accurate to the originals. Valve gear 001 by Ed Cloutman, on Flickr Eccentrics 001 by Ed Cloutman, on Flickr Few more pics - I have to turn the loco over to get at the springs so an underneath one! I love the way Stroudley stiffened the chassis and horns by slotting the keeps. Underneath by Ed Cloutman, on Flickr Does anyone have accurate measurements of the cast-iron brake gear on a Terrier? If not it looks as if I will have to take a trip to the Bluebell Railway and see if I can get permission to measure Fenchurch. The Stroudley drawings show the wooden brake gear, but I failed to take measurements of the A1X version. Ed
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Post by terrier060 on Dec 5, 2017 13:16:11 GMT
Just an update - I have been getting used to the oxy-propane which I am very taken with. Not only is it a lot quieter to use than a propane torch, but I love the concentrated heat. I have a lot to learn, and am not sure whether I have got a proper neutral flame, as I have no-one to show me. Seeing first-hand is often much better than reading from books or the internet. I am a bit messy as the enclosed picture shows, but the solder has run right through the joints. Probably need to be a bit more precise with the flux. Incidentally I found some really old Easyflo No2 in the workshop and it flows much more quickly that the modern stuff. Salter safety valves 02S by Ed Cloutman, on Flickr Does anyone have accurate measurements of the cast-iron brake gear on a Terrier? If not it looks as if I will have to take a trip to the Bluebell Railway and see if I can get permission to measure Fenchurch. The Stroudley drawings show the wooden brake gear, but I failed to take measurements of the A1X version. Please read the end of my last post - I would really appreciate some info on the A1X brake gear. Stupidly I did not take measurements when I visited the Bluebell Railway in the 1990s. Ed
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Post by Cro on Dec 5, 2017 13:21:34 GMT
The guys down the Bluebell are great at letting you climb if you explain and show them what you are up too. Take something along with you (like the parts in the picture above) and they love it, I take bits along all the time of the Std fittings and one look at it and its "yeah go crazy which one do you want to climb on first".
Great work look forward to seeing more,
Adam
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Post by terrier060 on Dec 5, 2017 14:08:07 GMT
Thanks Adam - encouragement like that helps to keep me going!
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chrisb
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 340
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Post by chrisb on Dec 6, 2017 18:07:16 GMT
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johnthepump
Part of the e-furniture
Building 7 1/4"G Edward Thomas
Posts: 493
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Post by johnthepump on Dec 8, 2017 12:15:59 GMT
Couple of questions - I have a great number of photographs which I am happy to supply copies of for anyone building a Terrier, but I do not have any of the underside of the running plates to show how they are supported. It is difficult to work this out from Stroudley's drawings. I know they are fixed to the T-pieces which run along the top of the frames, and the outside are supported by the valances, but there must be some cross-pieces? The other item is the cast-iron brake shoes on the A1X. The chap who did all my casting has sadly died, and I wonder if anyone has Don's Newport drawings for the brake shoes and whether the castings are accurate to the originals. Does anyone have accurate measurements of the cast-iron brake gear on a Terrier? If not it looks as if I will have to take a trip to the Bluebell Railway and see if I can get permission to measure Fenchurch. The Stroudley drawings show the wooden brake gear, but I failed to take measurements of the A1X version. Ed Hi Ed, I haven't read all of your thread so I hope I'm not telling you something you already know. Don Youngs 7 1/4"G. Terrier NEWPORT is described in Locomotive Large and Small No's. 50 - 56 with the drawings in the centre fold also some photos. Unfortunatley I can't find my copies of 54 and 56, as the brake blocks do not appear to be on the others, but I will have a look in the club library when I go to Broadfields next Wednesday. Also one of our club members works at Havenstreet in the Engineering Dept. He may be willing to take some photos, he is also on here and follows me so no doubt he will read this post, but I will speak to when I next see him. In the mean here is one photo. Regards John. Newport No.11 by John The Pump, on Flickr
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