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Post by steamer5 on Jun 2, 2021 2:35:25 GMT
Hi Ed, Will that’s not fun! Sure you will get it sorted. When I went round to Dads to get the photo from you he had a problem with his injector......he had removed it at some point & then reinstalled it backwards! An easy fix! Re not working when the safety lifts I’ve had similar experiences, the only thing I could put it down too was the pressure / turbulence caused by the safety, as soon as it reset the injector picked up. Also had them stop & restart if I brake to quick, but that’s boiler water to the steam turret, not the injector at fault!
Cheers Kerrin
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Post by terrier060 on Jun 10, 2021 23:04:21 GMT
Broke a water gauge glass last run. The fire door swung open and twisted the bottom fitting! The gauge glass protectors did their job and I was able to operate the shut-off cocks, top and bottom.
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Post by terrier060 on Jun 10, 2021 23:14:12 GMT
I think Kerrin that it is difficult to make and adjust injectors on the loco. I really need a test boiler like Roger and Julian have. It is fun, and a challenge to make ones own and very satisfying when one works well. I think I need larger ones for the Hunslet, as one of the present ones need to be on almost constantly.
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Post by Roger on Jun 11, 2021 8:39:51 GMT
I think Kerrin that it is difficult to make and adjust injectors on the loco. I really need a test boiler like Roger and Julian have. It is fun, and a challenge to make ones own and very satisfying when one works well. I think I need larger ones for the Hunslet, as one of the present ones need to be on almost constantly. Hi Ed, An injector that can be adjusted on the locomotive which it's in steam is not hard to make, but it will probably involve changing the piping arrangement.
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Post by terrier060 on Jun 17, 2021 23:17:11 GMT
Yes my pipework is very tight as the water connection from the tank is short, so I have to make the body of the injector exactly to fit. Hence the cone lenghts are longer on the steam and delivery, but the four cones are otherwise as Brown designed them. Ed
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weibel
Seasoned Member
Posts: 116
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Post by weibel on Jul 11, 2021 20:00:05 GMT
Since this appears to be the place to ask questions about the Terrier, I've been working on modeling one in CAD for a friend of mine to try his hand at with his new CNC machines. This might seem a bit silly, but does the smokebox appear to be sitting in the correct location on the saddle? part of me thinks that it needs to come forward a bit more, where the rear of the saddle would be flush with the the rear of the smokebox. Is the smokebox itself a bit too long, as original drawn by Don Young? I'm trying to follow the drawings as closely as possible, but I can't seem to make sense of this part. The end goal was to recreate Stepney (I promise there shall not be a face ever placed on this locomotive) and to simplify the design where possible. It's magnificent as designed, however, I felt for the sake of practicality toning it down a bit would be likely in order. Any suggestions regarding that would be helpful.
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Post by terrier060 on Jul 12, 2021 21:42:38 GMT
Hi Weibel
If you are drawing the A1X version then the smokebox is correct. The front edge of the saddle lines up with the step in the frames. The Smokebox front end extends forwards a little and the rear end is almost flush. See pages 4 to 6 in this thread of mine. The A1 version is quite different with a much narrower smokebox which does not have a saddle but bolts directly on to the top of the cylinder casting.
I will post my drawings in the morning, but they will have to be converted as they are drawn to 7.25 inch gauge, 7.7931 to 1 scale.
I cannot speak for Don Young's drawings as I have never seen them, but my loco is slightly larger due to the fact that I have directly scaled down from 4ft 8 1/2ins to 7.25 inch gauge hence the odd scale of 7.7931 to 1. I have worked from full size drawings. My locos are Fenchurch, one as original A1 and the other as the BR version A1X before the Bluebell railway did a partial rebuild to try and restore it to A1 form. My images on the thread show the BR A1X version, and very pretty she looked in it!
Be aware that there were many alterations throughout to life of these engines, paticularly the smokeboxes which tended to rust and burn through. The images of smokeboxes show many rivet patterns, particularly around the door where various replacements were made during the engines' lives.
Hope this helps. Ed
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weibel
Seasoned Member
Posts: 116
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Post by weibel on Jul 13, 2021 1:03:46 GMT
Ed,
Based on Don Young's drawings and the constraints that appear to exist in the drawings, it looked as though this was the only correct position. It seemed odd to me that it would have 1/8" both front and rear of the smokebox when it appears in the elevation that the smokebox sits flush to the saddle-hence why I asked. The idea was to do Stepney in its present form, which isn't one that I am terribly opposed to (it wasn't my idea, it was another American that has a substantially better shop than I do) I still am at times a bit confused by Don's drawings.
Do you think that there would be an option to use a mechanical lubricator on this locomotive? I can't find a decent place to hide one and with out it being a substantial nuisance to access.
Thank you sir, your work is truly incredible. -Dean
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Post by terrier060 on Jul 13, 2021 8:47:52 GMT
Many thanks for your kind word Dean. I have enclosed a couple of drawings here which you might find useful, but bear in mind my scale may be different from Don's (see my post above). I do have a lot of photos which I am happy to share if you can tell me which ones you would like. They are images of both Fenchurch and Stepney. Many are already on my thread. GA drawings by ed cloutman, on Flickr Smokebox detail by ed cloutman, on Flickr The top image just shows the difference in the A1 and A1X versions as I suspect you well know.
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Post by terrier060 on Jul 13, 2021 9:03:30 GMT
Regarding the mechanical lubricators - yes there is room on mine in front of the cylinders. It would require two, one each side of the front draw bar. They would be 1.25ins wide by 2 inches long.
On my Hunslet they run off one of the valve rods so the stroke varies with cut-off. They produce too much oil, so I will have to increase the length of the rocking lever. It will be trial and error.
I know cylinders require oil, but mine has no superheaters and most models have far too much oil going through the cylinders. I always quote Bill Perrett's Speedy which had a sight feed hydrostatic lubricator. It was set for two drops per circuit of the Soton track, which was 2/5th of a mile long if I remember correctly. The chimney after a days run would have a very slight smear on the finger. The loco ran for thousands of miles with no appreciable wear. One does not have to have black spots on ones face to ensure correct lubrication!! Ed
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Post by terrier060 on Jul 13, 2021 9:09:03 GMT
PS. You can have a removable section of footplate in front of the saddle for access. See my posts a few pages back where I show the mods to the Hunslet lubricators. If you do use mechanical rather than hydrostatic lubricators, make sure you buy the best quality ball clutches as the cheap ones are not reliable.
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Post by terrier060 on Jul 13, 2021 10:28:37 GMT
Here are a couple of images. The top one is Stepney, the bottom Fenchurch. Fenchurch must have had a new front to the smokebox at some point, because it has been rivetted on, the rivets showing around the door. The earlier one must have been flush rivetted as Stroudley favoured. You can see the overhang at the front end of the smokebox and a small overhang at the rear end as well. Stepney saddle detail by ed cloutman, on Flickr
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Post by terrier060 on Jul 13, 2021 11:08:25 GMT
Here is the front end of my A1X. The bottom of the lubricator boxes will be conveniently hidden by the sand boxes. I forgot to leave room for the levers and clutches, but they can be placed under the angle iron which strengthens the frames and the boxes made a little shorter in width if necessary. Mechanical Lubricators01 by ed cloutman, on Flickr
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weibel
Seasoned Member
Posts: 116
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Post by weibel on Jul 14, 2021 1:05:20 GMT
Ed, Many thanks for the pictures, your CAD work is superb as well as your work on your less digital locomotives. I frankly have never even come across drawings for a hydrostatic lubricator (bear in mind, I'm coming from the US) so I am totally in the dark with them. I only considered the mechanical due to a total lack of knowledge on the topic.
I do really enjoy this design (even just puttering with it in CAD), I do think that it could be simplified with out ruining the spirit of the design- but for the time being I plan to stick to it as designed. I'm sure once I'm closer to completion that I will end up posting a slew of pictures asking for input about what should be done to correct things the drawings don't mention.
Regards, -Dean
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Post by terrier060 on Jul 14, 2021 8:08:02 GMT
Any time I can be of help you know where I am. If you PM me I will send you some stuff on hydrostatic lubricators. I personally prefer them as there are no moving parts, but I have not yet decided where I can fit it to the Terriers without it showing. I like having. sight feed and this would be difficult to hide.
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Post by terrier060 on Jul 30, 2021 14:53:14 GMT
Having made the ejector and vacuum brake lever for the Hunslet, I have now finished the brake gear for the tender. Hopefully, I am going to steam up and test it tomorrow. Then I have to deal with the regulator which appears to be letting a small amount of steam past, which is great for warming the cylinders, but will just not do. It could be the way the steam delivery pipe was connected. I will have to have a look. I do not like these commercial ball valves that seem popular these days. They do not give a nice gradual and progressive application of steam like a well-made disc valve. Also they are not easy to remove. So providing I can get it out - hopefully without having to work at the smokebox end, which would be complicated and mean disturbing a lot of pipework, I may replace it with a disc valve. Brakes on driving tender by ed cloutman, on Flickr
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nonort
Part of the e-furniture
If all the worlds a Stage someone's nicked the Horses
Posts: 277
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Post by nonort on Jul 30, 2021 15:41:12 GMT
Here is the front end of my A1X. The bottom of the lubricator boxes will be conveniently hidden by the sand boxes. I forgot to leave room for the levers and clutches, but they can be placed under the angle iron which strengthens the frames and the boxes made a little shorter in width if necessary. Mechanical Lubricators01 by ed cloutman, on Flickr Could there be away of driving both lubricators with one lever. Pun intended just trying to think outside of the box.
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Post by terrier060 on Jul 30, 2021 22:28:31 GMT
Yes - both lubricators are arranged with their drives towards the middle of the frames and their levers linked together on a common shaft to one of the valve rods. You must ensure that the left and right hand clutches work in opposite directions, so for example, the LH eccentric on the pump goes clockwise and the RH anti-clockwise. You can also see the non-return valves. There is one for each lubricator with separate pipes to each cylinder. Have a look at my thread from page 53 onwards and you will see the modifications I made to the lubricators which were commercially rather poorly made, relying on one bush and clutch to support the pump axle. Cylinder lubricators by ed cloutman, on Flickr
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Post by terrier060 on Aug 2, 2021 8:41:28 GMT
Peter kindly welded the actuating lever to the brake shaft and I am pleased to say that the brakes worked really well. They even had good partial application to slow the train down our steep gradient. The small holes in the disc on the brake valve must be doing their job. I have to keep the regulator cracked open going down hill as I have no snifting valves on the loco, so I need the slight application of brakes. Using the vacuum gauge I could judge how much to apply the brakes - cool!
The exhaust from the ejector is a straight pipe that points directly down and ends under the frames. It does not go to the smokebox as I did not want a constant flow of steam passing up the chimney. I very rarely use any blower as the boiler steams very freely and I have to keep a low fire to stop the loco blowing off. I also avoided putting it into the ashpan as I wanted to be able to drop the grate cleanly at the end of a run. In any case, having made smaller cones, there is hardly any noise from the ejector exhaust, just a small wisp of steam. The vacuum is produced fairly quickly. The initial filling of the cylinders on first application after lighting up takes about 1/2 min, but after that it produces full vacuum in about 5 to 10 seconds.
All-in-all I am quite pleased with the operation, and it was fun making it. It does pay to make the operating lever as long as possible to get good leverage and a strong application of the brake blocks on the wheels.
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Post by terrier060 on Aug 11, 2021 0:59:58 GMT
Back to the leaking regulator. When the loco had its hydraulic test the club boiler inspector was impressed as the boiler held it's pressure without extra pumping to hold it a 1.5x. The regulator is a right angled ball valve and did not leak at all. Then recently I noticed water and steam pouring out of one of the drain cocks as I was firing up, with the loco in mid-gear and the regulator shut.
When running there was obviously a problem as it would not shut completely, but seemed to right itself after some time running. Then on the last outing the loco ran away with me and I had to stop it by putting it in mid-gear and applying the brakes. Then it appeared to right itself again. Any suggestions?
I am fairly confident it was not the valve, but somewhere in the steam delivery pipe.
When I removed the valve I found that the spindle gland in the valve was worn, wobbling and the rubber O rings were shot. But the ball still seemed tight in its PTFE casing. The olive on the main steam delivery pipe was loose however, so my hunch may have been correct.
There is no way of checking this but by fitting a new valve and making sure that the olive is tight, putting the boiler together again and giving it another hydraulic test before steaming. All will be clearer when I post the images.
I have to say that unlike some of you I am not a fan of ball regulators. I find then very fierce, either on or off. I have always made disc valves with tear-shapes openings which give nice smooth gradual application of steam, and I don't remember them leaking. Mine are bronze on bronze. I intend to try PTFE on bronze for the Terriers.
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