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Post by Jim on Apr 4, 2018 12:39:07 GMT
Hi Jim, Hows the grin?? 19 seconds just isn't enough, sounds like shes running sweet. The whistle sounds pretty good too, were those the first "blows", just wondering if it had been warmed thru I rang dad to say I had plans for him, hes pretty happy......just has to figure out were to put it. His loco is an NZR WW in 5" & given that he has twin axel pumps, twin oil pumps, plus balance lines between side tanks, it should keep him out of mischief for a day or two! He asked me to pass on his thanks for the drawings Cheers Kerrin Yes they were the first warm up blows. I wanted to check out a few things I'd had a fiddle with after the last steam up. Lucky I resurfaced and painted the landing as a couple of things came loose and were easily recovered on the nice freshly painted marine ply. Jim
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Post by doubletop on Apr 5, 2018 1:39:01 GMT
I'm not sure how this will turn out but this is an unedited clip of the 70036's second steam up that I did today. The 3 chime whistle that sounds is the one show in an earlier post in this thread. youtu.be/vtjJaiNmff0I hope the link works Jim Jim Spectrum of your whistle 650hz,820hz and 1125hz vs 684hz, 918hz and 1125hz predicted by the spreadsheet. The red line is the max hold line notice how the tone pulls upwards as the whistle warms up. Just as expected. I just used a free Spectrum Analyser app on my Android Pete
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Post by Jim on Apr 5, 2018 3:41:05 GMT
That is interesting Pete in fact more than interesting, it's amazing. Thank you.
Jim.
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Post by doubletop on Apr 5, 2018 4:04:22 GMT
That is interesting Pete in fact more than interesting, it's amazing. Thank you. Jim. Technology at your finger tips these days. If there is something you want to do check the app store first.. Hopefully I haven't set the rivet counters off with their mobile phones informing all in sundary that their whistles are off by a semitone. Pete
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Post by steamcoal on Apr 5, 2018 7:29:05 GMT
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Post by doubletop on Apr 5, 2018 8:37:56 GMT
I've consolidated most of the spreadsheets created by Richard Weisenberger on the Yahoo Steam Whistle Group into a one page Excel spreadsheet. It provides all the paramenters we would need. Its a pity there is nowhere we can post these things for you all to be access the spreadsheet. Just have to make some whistles now and prove it works. Pete
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Post by doubletop on Apr 5, 2018 8:58:24 GMT
It was stationary outside Jims shed.. no Doppler involved
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Post by steamcoal on Apr 5, 2018 11:50:44 GMT
Pete,
Was thinking about the vid's on you tube. They all sound different and guess recording depend on equipment too and surroundings. I have one of Reece Cobbs whistles for the Maisie. Must be in 5/8th or 3/4 tube.
Hayden
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Post by joanlluch on Apr 5, 2018 12:34:49 GMT
I've consolidated most of the spreadsheets created by Richard Weisenberger on the Yahoo Steam Whistle Group into a one page Excel spreadsheet. ... Its a pity there is nowhere we can post these things for you all to be access the spreadsheet. ... Hi Pete, have you tried google drive?. I think you can share links to documents stored there that can be accessed by anybody.
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Post by doubletop on Apr 5, 2018 20:06:26 GMT
Hi Pete, have you tried google drive?. I think you can share links to documents stored there that can be accessed by anybody. Good idea - Whistles Parameters spreadsheet HERENote this is based on the work of Richard Weisenberger of the Steam Whistles Yahoo Group here are the notes he provided with the set of spreadsheets he produced Apart from correcting a whistle that didn't work I have yet to confirm this works but it does concur with all the notes on these various threads here so provides a basis for making a whistle rather than hacking at a piece of tube and hoping something good comes out. Please advise everybody if you've made a whistle using these parameters and the results you get. Pete
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,913
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Post by jma1009 on Apr 5, 2018 21:00:22 GMT
Hi Pete,
Thank you very much for all your posts above. They confirm my own empirical results.
Any decent miniature loco ought to have a decent whistle and use it (in my case) according to the old BR rules. You have done a superb job here the last few days.
Also, I greatly enjoyed Jim's brief youtube clip of his Brit's whistle which sounded very good.
For those interested in chime whistles, google 'Nathan chime whistles' and you will get all the notes used on many USA locos.
I have a job to do in the workshop when some new drills arrive, but then when completed, I will use Pete's spreadsheet to make Stepney's whistle.
Cheers,
Julian
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Post by doubletop on Apr 6, 2018 6:20:13 GMT
Julian
Thanks; hopefully it is of use to people. I must confirm its not original work from me, just a re-package of the stuff done by Richard Weisenberger.
It is nice to now know there is some science behind the dimensions we use, or will be using. I've found it useful to be able confirm why my previous efforts failed.
It would be good to hear how the information works for others. I'm considering doing some of Norms one-piece inserts for different tube sizes and tones to see what the results are.
Pete
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Post by joanlluch on Apr 6, 2018 7:23:20 GMT
The very popular "mikados" that ran in Spain until the end of the steam era, were an original design of the "North British Locomotives & Company Limited" from Glasgow and were originally made in the UK. The latest ones were made locally and many of them received upgrades such as conversion to fuel-oil burning, double chimney exhaust system, pump based feed water systems and preheaters, among other minor ones. An interesting feature that maintains nostalgia alive among the ones that still remember these smoke making beasts, is the sound of their whistles. They sounded very American. Similar to this: www.steam-whistles.com/sounds/HM6chime.mp3Of course physics of scale will forbid it, but wouldn't it be great that this sort of low pitched, almost frightening sounds, were possible to have on model scales? Joan
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Post by doubletop on Apr 6, 2018 8:31:08 GMT
The very popular "mikados" that ran in Spain until the end of the steam era, were an original design of the "North British Locomotives & Company Limited" from Glasgow and were originally made in the UK. The latest ones were made locally and many of them received upgrades such as conversion to fuel-oil burning, double chimney exhaust system, pump based feed water systems and preheaters, among other minor ones. An interesting feature that maintains nostalgia alive among the ones that still remember these smoke making beasts, is the sound of their whistles. They sounded very American. Similar to this: www.steam-whistles.com/sounds/HM6chime.mp3Of course physics of scale will forbid it, but wouldn't it be great that this sort of low pitched, almost frightening sounds, were possible to have on model scales? Joan Joan Mobile Spectrum Analyser again As far as I can tell the 6 chimes are 322Hz, 387hz, 492hz, 615hz, 879Hz, 1230Hz the lowest note would need a tube with a working length of 13.88" Just had a thought about intermodulation and the 879hz could be the sum of 387hz and 492Hz Pete
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Post by simplyloco on Apr 6, 2018 8:43:46 GMT
Gosh. Replies now at 53, and over 1000 views. This blast of sonic wisdom may be more of a blare to those on here who don't give a hoot: they'll probably be glad when the wail is reduced to a warble... John
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Post by doubletop on Apr 8, 2018 9:10:11 GMT
I've uploaded a new version of the spreadsheet. I've added the function to enter the working length and get the frequency on air or steam. You should be able to work out the frequency of your existing whistle and the use a mobile spectrum analyser app to see if the results agree. drive.google.com/open?id=1QZz4SkvkiZIKW72ENBj_7sCdk574BBqYPete
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peteh
Statesman
Still making mistakes!
Posts: 760
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Post by peteh on Apr 8, 2018 12:29:09 GMT
Sorry Pete, all I get is the dreaded error 404, not found for that latest link. you need to remove the 'link' at the end for it to work. See if this works-
drive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1QZz4SkvkiZIKW72ENBj_7sCdk574BBqY
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Post by doubletop on Apr 8, 2018 19:11:57 GMT
Sorry Pete, all I get is the dreaded error 404, not found for that latest link. you need to remove the 'link' at the end for it to work. See if this works- drive.google.com%2Fopen%3Fid%3D1QZz4SkvkiZIKW72ENBj_7sCdk574BBqY Fixed, thanks Pete Pete
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Post by doubletop on May 5, 2018 1:15:17 GMT
I've now had a chance to try this out and make a whistle using the parameters derived from the spreadsheet and using Norm's one piece insert. Sorry to say but the first attempts didn't go to well. I was aiming for a 60psi whistle so I needed an 8thou slit and my first insert turned out at 14thou and the second at 11thou, my third attempt was bang on. Either way I was suffering from overblowing albeit at ever increasing pressures but well below 60psi. I then resorted to increasing the cutup to 1.5 times the spreadsheet value although the max operating pressure, without overblowing, was again higher but still below 60psi. I then thought that maybe using my airline air nozzle as a whistle valve was supplying too much air and I should try a ‘proper’ whistle valve of the type we would use. That proved to fix the problem and the whistle now worked at the design pressure, and above. The trouble was the whistle now wasn’t to the design parameters. As I had used Norm’s one-piece insert, glued in with Loctite, it was just a case of a bit of heat to recover it and chop off the incorrect mouth and re-cut it. OK it was now going to be a different frequency. This whistle then worked ‘out of the box’ no messing with anything, and it works fine up to 75psi before overblowing. Using the mobile phone spectrum analyser it was within 1hz of the theoretical frequency on air. In doing this I did realise that the spreadsheet wasn’t clear on the value of the diameter, whether it is O/D or I/D. I/D is used for the mouth area calculation and the O/D for the depth of cut. So I’ve updated the spreadsheet to V5 drive.google.com/open?id=1ZdPe7ddruRZVz_2DOYo2Sri0710E5_aLPete
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Post by doubletop on May 16, 2018 3:19:08 GMT
I've finaly got around to testing the whistle I made using the spreadsheet parameters. Designed for 60psi it worked well 'out of the box' up to 70psi and starts overblowing above 80psi
(edit - I've just noticed on the spectrum analyser that Whistle 1 is sounding quietly with the valve shut so the valve must be leaking)
That done I thought I'd try something a bit bigger as I had a length of 2.5" copper tube.
It is a bit big so not really useful for our scales, although one of our members has full size loco's and had asked if I could make him a whistle for one of them.
I'm happy now that I've got these things under control and with repeatable results. Norm's one piece unit is just the job as its easy to glue into the tube with loctite with a reduces risk of blocking the slit. Also it can be removed and re-used say if you want to change the note.
Pete
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