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Post by steamer5 on May 9, 2020 7:57:05 GMT
Hi, Yes outside frames. The wheels are cast, but will be steel tired, they will be 6.5” over the tire.
Cheers Kerrin
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Post by RGR 60130 on May 9, 2020 8:18:11 GMT
My apologies for continuing the off topic chilled castings theme. I had problems machining some of the castings for my Peppercorn A1. At that time I was working in Anerdeen and travelling south regularly. I found a company in Dundee who heat treated every casting except the driving wheels for the princely sum of £10. While carbide tooling may allow you to machine through hard spots, you don't really want them in your casting when you're tapping small BA size holes in your cast iron cylinders.
Reg
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Post by springcrocus on May 9, 2020 21:54:01 GMT
My apologies for continuing the off topic chilled castings theme. I had problems machining some of the castings for my Peppercorn A1. At that time I was working in Anerdeen and travelling south regularly. Reg About time we had an update, Reg. And what's this about working? You're supposed to be retired!
Regards, Steve
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Post by runner42 on May 18, 2020 7:20:37 GMT
Almost finished the tender chassis. There is a number of changes to DY's design, the most significant is lowering the tender wheels by drilling the axle box holes more towards the bottom edge. This overcomes the need for wheel arches in the sole plate. It can now be a single flat plate. Also the valve gear operating mechanism is borrowed from LBSC's Doris. I also found that DY's positioning of the brake hangers by the use of chassis mounted pins didn't provide enough entry from the inside chassis to align with the wheel tread. Much of the chassis bracing is different, so all in all it is more like a scaled up version of LBSC's Black 5 tender chassis. The only additional item to consider is where to place the water control valve to the injector, if it is to be placed on the tender chassis like LBSC's or in the locomotive cab. Brian tender chassis by Brian Leach, on Flickr tender chassis1 by Brian Leach, on Flickr tender chassis2 by Brian Leach, on Flickr tender chassis3 by Brian Leach, on Flickr
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,713
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Post by mbrown on May 18, 2020 7:28:18 GMT
Re: the injector water control, you could have both... The prototype had On-Off valves on the tender, operated by a light-up rod, and a finer water control in the cab.
I find valves on the tender very useful if there is water in the tender when you uncouple....
Malcolm
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,713
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Post by mbrown on May 18, 2020 7:53:36 GMT
That should have been "lift-up" rod... Wretched auto-correct....!
Malcolm
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Post by RGR 60130 on May 18, 2020 10:39:20 GMT
Brian,
Now you've lowered the wheels / lifted the chassis and body, will the drawbar still be at the right height for the loco or will you have to use a dog leg drawbar?
Reg
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Post by David on May 18, 2020 10:40:06 GMT
These days I think it's fair to say that Indexable Carbide inserts will cope with anything that Cast Iron can throw at them. The first generation of Carbide, Brazed to a holder was nowhere near as tough as the ones on sale today. The situation with castings must be quite different down here. My father-in-law got some driving wheel castings for his latest project that were a silvery colour all over and basically unmachinable. They tried it on a big lathe with strong carbide tools and the tools just kept breaking. The interrupted cut wasn't helping but the tools didn't even want to touch the treads. While that was a spectacularly bad case, it doesn't seem all that rare. The foundries just don't seem to give a rats about our tiny little volumes. It feels like they're all Friday afternoon jobs. I was watching an Abom79 video ages ago and he had a casting done to replace a gearbox cover and as a favour his friend at the foundry got it done and out of the mold in double quick time... meaning it was hard as all get out and really difficult to work with. I wonder if people working at foundries these days know what they're doing, or just don't care unless you're ordering millions of dollars worth of mining gear. Anyway, nice work going on with the Black 5 Brian!
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Post by delaplume on May 18, 2020 11:11:11 GMT
Hi Brian,
I agree with the others---- that's looking very nice indeed..A lot of folk forget just how much work goes into a tender, the loco seeming to get all the limelight somehow....
A small question if I may ??.........Are the wheel faces meant to be Black all over or as shown ie}-- the tread face in bright metal colour ??
Alan
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Post by runner42 on May 19, 2020 7:37:24 GMT
Brian, Now you've lowered the wheels / lifted the chassis and body, will the drawbar still be at the right height for the loco or will you have to use a dog leg drawbar? Reg Reg, putting the tender chassis on the same level as the locomotive are reasonably at the same height so I don't envisage having to have a dog leg drawbar. There is room in the 1/2" slots on both the locomotive and tender for some misalignment to occur when the drawbar thickness is only say 1/4". Brian
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Post by runner42 on May 19, 2020 7:46:13 GMT
These days I think it's fair to say that Indexable Carbide inserts will cope with anything that Cast Iron can throw at them. The first generation of Carbide, Brazed to a holder was nowhere near as tough as the ones on sale today. The situation with castings must be quite different down here. My father-in-law got some driving wheel castings for his latest project that were a silvery colour all over and basically unmachinable. They tried it on a big lathe with strong carbide tools and the tools just kept breaking. The interrupted cut wasn't helping but the tools didn't even want to touch the treads. While that was a spectacularly bad case, it doesn't seem all that rare. The foundries just don't seem to give a rats about our tiny little volumes. It feels like they're all Friday afternoon jobs. I was watching an Abom79 video ages ago and he had a casting done to replace a gearbox cover and as a favour his friend at the foundry got it done and out of the mold in double quick time... meaning it was hard as all get out and really difficult to work with. I wonder if people working at foundries these days know what they're doing, or just don't care unless you're ordering millions of dollars worth of mining gear. Anyway, nice work going on with the Black 5 Brian! David, these wheels were heat treated after casting so they were more easily machined than the driving wheels, which were very hard. This was an extra process so presumably added to the cost. Knowing that foundries tend to rush things and don't allow sufficient time for cooling it may be pertinent to request the heat treatment. Thanks for the encouraging words. Brian
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Post by runner42 on May 19, 2020 7:54:14 GMT
Hi Brian, I agree with the others---- that's looking very nice indeed..A lot of folk forget just how much work goes into a tender, the loco seeming to get all the limelight somehow.... A small question if I may ??.........Are the wheel faces meant to be Black all over or as shown ie}-- the tread face in bright metal colour ?? Alan Hi Alan, I agree yes there are lots of work to undertake in the tender, it seemed like I was on it for ages. I don't know what the painting scheme should follow, painting the tread faces would have simplified things and I was tempted to do that. If it required the treads to be bright metal then it would have easy to stick the wheels between centres on the lathe and abraid the treads to remove the paint. Brian
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Post by runner42 on Jun 5, 2020 8:04:12 GMT
Stripped the locomotive chassis down in order to attach the brakes, this was not done previously because I hadn't made the brake cylinder and actuating mechanism and thought that this needed to be in place for a reference point to establish the correct length of the brake rods. Having made all the brake gear and readying the chassis for drilling the brake hanger attachment points I realise that DY doesn't provide positional measurements, only indicating on the frame drawing the approximate position. Does anyone have any thoughts on how the brake gear is set up so the hangers are in their correct position? In having the chassis stripped down I see that the between the frames mechanical lubricator requires plumbing to the point where the oil is introduced to the cylinders. DY doesn't show where the oil is introduced, does anyone have an idea where the connection should be positioned? Having stripped the valve gear down I found that the relatively flimsy motion plate girder had cracked at the join to the motion link bracket on both sides causing the assembly to sag moving the expansion link out of correct position. No matter how hard I tried to get the T shaped girder to provide a robust joint at this position still cracked when applying force. So I made the girder from a solid square section piece of steel. motion girder by Brian Leach, on Flickr Brian
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Post by runner42 on Jun 6, 2020 6:27:30 GMT
Added a picture of the old and new motion plate girder. Perhaps the old fabricated version wasn't strong enough, although there doesn't seem to be any great stress on this part if everything is sweet and operating as required. Maybe I have introduced some stress point to cause both motion plate girders to crack. Anyhow the solid girder provides a substantial silver solder joint between the girder and motion link bracket so I can be assured that it wont crack. It doesn't look so fancy as the fabricated version but like many times with DY design I have changed it to suit my capabilities which usually means simplifying the construction. Brian motion plate gider by Brian Leach, on Flickr
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Post by runner42 on Jun 12, 2020 8:18:35 GMT
Finished the brake gear on the locomotive. It was more difficult installing it after the completed chassis because of only a partial stripdown was undertaken so drilling small holes for the brake arm brackets using a hand drill was a bit dodgy and tapping for 8 BA screws was a challenge. brake gear_exposure by Brian Leach, on Flickr I don't know if DY specifies the fasteners to use in all situations so I followed my normal practice of using metric stainless steel, however deviating from the specified requirements has raised some unexpected problems. The use of 3 mm fasteners on the brake blocks to brake hanger, the style used ie hex headed puts the head a little too far out so it is going to interfere with the coupling rods at positions main and rear driving wheels. A normal across the flats hexagon head screw will be OK but at the moment the ones I have are no long enough so I await delivery of same. brake gear cylinder_exposure by Brian Leach, on Flickr Brian
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Post by runner42 on Jun 24, 2020 7:36:58 GMT
It has got to the stage of the project that I require something to be able to gain access to the locomotive and tender on a 360 deg basis, also be able to access it underneath. Because of the lack of space in the shed, it has to be maneuverable. The answer is a sized handling trolley to accommodate both the locomotive and tender. The construction was using mostly 40 x 40 mm box section steel tube, with the uprights being 45 x 45 mm box section. 4 steerable trolley wheels provided the maneuverability. The rails are 40 x 40 mm L section steel, the gap between the rails provide access from underneath. handling trolley by Brian Leach, on Flickr handling trolley1 by Brian Leach, on Flickr handling trolley2 by Brian Leach, on Flickr I borrowed my SIL's arc welder and gained a lecture on the do's and dont's of arc welding, my only experience was during my apprenticeship at a R.E.M.E depot some 60 years ago. However, the task appeared a little too difficult holding the pieces in the right place, so I used nuts and bolts to hold the pieces in position and found that the construction was robust enough without welding so I opted to excuse myself from gaining experience in arc welding. The welder is some 20 years old and weighs a ton due to the very large mains transformer, it was before inverters were used, so the welding rod it clipped on the holder so at start off you have a long rod to try to control. No thanks. Brian PS All the time I have been a member of the forum I have often been miffed that when viewing lengthy pages filled with many pictures that I have to scroll down through parts previously read to see the latest entry. Well I have found that if you click on the new green icon instead of the name of the blog then you are taken to the latest entry automatically.
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Post by simplyloco on Jun 24, 2020 8:08:53 GMT
Hi Brian. Like you, I learnt the basics in a RE depot, but to be frank, I'm a precision engineer, not an artist! Drawing Christmas trees in molten metal? Forget it! Rivet, rivet... Great progress BTW. John
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Post by Jim on Jun 25, 2020 11:34:20 GMT
I like your loco trolley Brian, it's very neat and has given me some ideas for making one for the Britannia as I have a problem in getting the loco out of the work shop on the existing red lifting table that only has one pair of steerable castors. As a project it would let me 'play' with my Oxy Propane welding/brazing set, something that i quite enjoy.
Jim
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Post by runner42 on Jul 20, 2020 7:03:46 GMT
Received the brass sheet for the tender, it cost a small mortgage due to the fact that the pieces were cut to size using a CNC machine so they are mm perfect (it's a metric system in use down here) and straight, which due to the size of the tender is beyond my cutting capabilities, having only a 12 inch hacksaw. The only additional work that is required is to shape the pieces that are not just a rectangle. I have done the two sides and some minor work on the sole plate. Tender Sole plate and sides by Brian Leach, on Flickr Tender Sole plate and sides1 by Brian Leach, on Flickr I am faced with a number of issues that I would welcome advice on. Firstly, the bending of the sides appears to be a challenge since I would imagine that the bending would be undertaken in the non annealed state due to warping if annealed. Any suggestions on applying, on the face of it, a large force to bend it. Secondly construction is by soft soldering, but when attempting this on my Doris tender using a propane torch caused previously soldered areas to loose water tight integrity due to changes in orientation causing solder to flow out from previously soldered areas due to gravity. This I assume is due to the propane torch providing too much heat to adjoining areas. What soldering equipment is best for a large job, but not too severe as to cause flow out. This begs the question what is the optimum method of assembly? Brian
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 873
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Post by barlowworks on Jul 20, 2020 9:42:57 GMT
When I did my Britannia tender I used a small nozzle on the gas torch for big bits and a small portable propane torch for the detail work. I also used different melting point soft solders, 224 degree for the main parts(plumbers solder melts at about this) and 188 or 145 solder for the details depending on the size or proximity (available from Carrs). Also I would try and make a solid fixing either with rivets or brackets as well whenever possible. Flux was Phosphoric acid, I believe it is the same as Bakers flux. Avoid plumbers paste solder in a tin, it works o.k. but if you don't get every bit of it off when you clean up it will eventually ruin your paint. Sorry I can't help with the bending, mine was ready bent when I bought it but there are a couple of threads that have covered this on here.
Mike
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