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Post by Stafford Road Design on Jul 2, 2018 8:49:26 GMT
Personally I've found people will pay for quality castings but you A. Need to find the right modellers and B. Have to produce things exactly how they were prototypically. If modellers will spend in excess of £500 for a set of machined 7mm model wheels I can't see why they wouldn't pay top money for anything in 5" too. I've recently produced a set of 5" wheels for an Adams Radial tank, now these were slightly different in the fact they were machined from solid but the gentleman in question paid quite a lot of money for what he described as "perfection". So I suppose in answer to your question Mike yes there are people out there who will pay top prices for top quality products, the difficulty is finding them I suppose.
Elliot
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Post by nick952 on Jul 2, 2018 10:34:49 GMT
Hi all
I've sent a PM to Mike and Elliot with details of my supplier.
Once my castings have arrived and I've verified the quality, I'll post photos and details on my Castle Build thread (probably another couple of months, as the orders are only sent to the foundry every 4 months or so). In the meantime, if you want details, then contact me via PM and I'll send you the details.
Nick.
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Post by Stafford Road Design on Jul 2, 2018 16:49:17 GMT
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jul 3, 2018 7:04:29 GMT
Might have expected a better finish on the hub of the left hand wheel?
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Post by Cro on Jul 3, 2018 7:15:18 GMT
Elliot you know I love what you are doing on the wheel front let alone the GWR loco side of things and those 7mm wheels are cracking. Problem is comments like the above, people are quick to jump on the imperfections rather than the success of whats been achieved here. They are amazing castings only making the modelling world better but the few print striations which will be machined out are the focal point of the first bit of feedback.
Adam
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Post by 4fbuilder on Jul 3, 2018 10:00:17 GMT
Hi all, There are some amazing developments in the model engineering field today with the use of modern CAD, CNC, lost wax casting, rapid prototyping, etc; methods far beyond anything that has gone before, miserable lumps of metal complete with blow holes where often the order of the day. I sit here treadling away on this magic box of tricks, mesmerised but fascinated by some of the work and processes being applied to model engineering today. Sadly too often somebody will come up with some negative remark, no help at all, constructive criticism can often be most useful but negative or destructive criticism has no place here; I've always been of the opinion if the critic can do better then show us your goods! Out of interest there is a guy out there working in gauge 1 and gauge 3 producing lost wax castings, a most interesting web site www.markwoodwheels.co.uk again he does some fabulous work. Keep up the good work everyone, always interesting. Regards, Bob
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44767
Statesman
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Post by 44767 on Jul 3, 2018 11:26:01 GMT
Might have expected a better finish on the hub of the left hand wheel? I have seen this effect on other castings. Digital photography of castings is very unkind as the light reflects off tiny surface roughness giving it a very coarse looking surface. The two wheels are the same, as far as I can see, but the other does not show it. I have actually measured that imperfection on castings made in a similar way and found them to be in the order of 0.004mm high. They are not striations as such (i.e. not the layer lines) but rather the part of the printer which skims each layer to height. This would have been the top of the casting which shows that it is more likely the surface finish of the planing element of the printer.
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abby
Statesman
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Post by abby on Jul 3, 2018 11:37:21 GMT
How things have changed ! a few years ago there was a strict rule that posters should not promote their own products/services and those that did were promptly corrected by the moderators. In fact I started my own forum after exchanging words with Alan. Anyway as it seems we are exchanging wheel pictures and trumpet blowing so here are my 10mm scale Merchant Navy class Drivers , cast in brass and after machining and fitting with a steel tyre Much cheaper than Mark woods if I may say so ! I should also add that the waxes for these were formed in a die fabricated from hand machined pieces soft soldered together. On the 5" Castle front this is my casting for the inside motion frame after machining and fitting. some castings for brake hangers etc. and a cheeky ad , if any " 5" Castle " builders want one I have an inside guide bar frame in stock and the bogie pivot casting. I am afraid the waxes for these castings were made the old fashioned way , hand poured wax into silicone rubber moulds so they are not perfect. You may have to use your hands. Dan(with tongue firmly in cheek)
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Post by simplyloco on Jul 3, 2018 11:52:18 GMT
How things have changed ! a few years ago there was a strict rule that posters should not promote their own products/services and those that did were promptly corrected by the moderators. In fact I started my own forum after exchanging words with Alan. Hi Dan Agreed! This is not a market place. John
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Post by Stafford Road Design on Jul 3, 2018 11:55:36 GMT
Gents,
I think we're losing sight of what Mike originally asked.....would people pay premium prices....
In my experience I'd say yes they will.....within reason. I know there might only be a few people out there who can afford models built to such a high calibre but they do exist. There are also a lot of people who want much more detailed and accurate representations of locomotives and with this comes cost.
Personally I think there are a lot more people out there now willing to pay that little bit more for something of a much higher finished quality, the main difficulty is having the "balls" in the first place to invest in the right tooling to make the products so people know they're achievable and also knowing what ceiling the "majority" will go up to for quality products.
I think at the end of the day its a simple case of "you pays your money and you takes your choice"
Is there any way of doing any sort of poll on here? Maybe put up a test case of say 3 levels of the same part, standard, detailed and super detailed and give them relative costings. This way we can see what people would actually want as regards quality vs cost?
Elliot
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Post by chris vine on Jul 3, 2018 12:03:02 GMT
I think it is fascinating to see all the high quality work and castings and 3D printing that is going on here. It is the way of the world. I guess that in the future, one will have to state which parts were printed from one's own research 3D drawing files etc.
As far as price is concerned, the original question: I was told that there are two types of model engineer: Those that will pay for quality stuff and those that won't. Even if you produce fantastic quality at a very low price, the latter will still complain and say that the brass/iron etc only cost a few pence, so why is your cylinder casting (with cast in ports etc) so expensive... They won't buy, so they are not your potential customers.
One other thing which I point out to people at ME exhibitions who are complaining about prices: Model engineering is not big business, there aren't any Ferarris, Bentley etc parked in the traders' car park.
Keep it up chaps and Chappesses! Chris.
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jasonb
Elder Statesman
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Post by jasonb on Jul 3, 2018 12:17:03 GMT
Might have expected a better finish on the hub of the left hand wheel? I'm not a loco man but I suspect that the area that shows the lines has some machining allowance as does the rim, same wheel a couple of photos along confirms that. Why spend extra time refining a printed surface that is going to be machined away www.flickr.com/photos/156731235@N03/28284862907/in/dateposted-public/
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Post by Jo on Jul 3, 2018 12:41:12 GMT
One other thing which I point out to people at ME exhibitions who are complaining about prices: Model engineering is not big business, there aren't any Ferarris, Bentley etc parked in the traders' car park. …..Chris. I think you would be surprised, few run their model engineering business to make money. Some do it as a retirement hobby as they enjoy doing it but they bring their transits etc with all the goodies to the shows rather than one of their "day" cars . Jo
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Post by Cro on Jul 3, 2018 13:21:23 GMT
One other thing which I point out to people at ME exhibitions who are complaining about prices: Model engineering is not big business, there aren't any Ferarris, Bentley etc parked in the traders' car park. …..Chris. I think you would be surprised, few run their model engineering business to make money. Some do it as a retirement hobby as they enjoy doing it but they bring their transits etc with all the goodies to the shows rather than one of their "day" cars . Jo I think Chris is right here like many I turn up in the same car I go to work in every day and do it to provide what I class as better castings to the hobby at a sensible price. I sometimes think to myself its crazy as I really am not taking much away from it other than stress as I'm so busy. ME doesn't pay the bills, especially at my age, otherwise I wouldn't have a full time job to pay the bills. To follow on Elliots point about the pole (no not a sales pitch) - I have two manifolds on offer for BR stds, the bog standard that you just plumb in with a working main shut off valve and the other all singing all dancing with all the working shut off valves and so on. I priced it quite high in reality as a lot of work involved and never thought anyone would go for it.....I've sold a handful of them at twice the price of the basic option. On the outside they are basically identical but people love the fact that it is spot on. Adam PS I don't think this is blowing trumpets, if we aren't able to share our work on places like this how would people ever get to see whats going on? I show all of my business work on here, no one has ever complain but I never talk business, prices or try advertise it publicly through here (that I remember!).
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Post by Stafford Road Design on Jul 3, 2018 15:17:46 GMT
How things have changed ! a few years ago there was a strict rule that posters should not promote their own products/services and those that did were promptly corrected by the moderators. In fact I started my own forum after exchanging words with Alan. Anyway as it seems we are exchanging wheel pictures and trumpet blowing so here are my 10mm scale Merchant Navy class Drivers , cast in brass and after machining and fitting with a steel tyre Much cheaper than Mark woods if I may say so ! I should also add that the waxes for these were formed in a die fabricated from hand machined pieces soft soldered together. On the 5" Castle front this is my casting for the inside motion frame after machining and fitting. some castings for brake hangers etc. and a cheeky ad , if any " 5" Castle " builders want one I have an inside guide bar frame in stock and the bogie pivot casting. I am afraid the waxes for these castings were made the old fashioned way , hand poured wax into silicone rubber moulds so they are not perfect. You may have to use your hands. Dan(with tongue firmly in cheek) Dan, Apologies if you thought I was touting for business far from it. A member had mentioned this thread and thought I would have a valuable contribution to it being as I'm involved in areas such as this and thought that the 7mm Castle wheel would be an ideal example of what people are willing to pay (I deliberately chose a 7mm example not a 5" one). Ultimately there are a select few people around trying to produce the best money can buy and unless they know there are A. People out there willing to pay that little bit extra for perfection and B. How far we can push the envelope to create the best, if we didn't we'd end up very broke very quickly. (Loving the Castle btw, mine only exists electronically at the moment )
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abby
Statesman
Posts: 927
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Post by abby on Jul 3, 2018 21:22:19 GMT
SRD absolutely no need to apologise a good many here including myself are touting for business , your cad model is almost as beautiful as the real thing . Dan.
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jul 3, 2018 21:33:49 GMT
Might have expected a better finish on the hub of the left hand wheel? I'm not a loco man but I suspect that the area that shows the lines has some machining allowance as does the rim, same wheel a couple of photos along confirms that. Why spend extra time refining a printed surface that is going to be machined away www.flickr.com/photos/156731235@N03/28284862907/in/dateposted-public/A fair point Jason, and if taken to its extreme, all you need to get right to superdetail level is the spokes, the rest can be as rough as a bear's behind, because its going to get machined anyway. I'd better shut up now, appear to be upsetting people.
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Post by nick952 on Nov 3, 2018 11:35:09 GMT
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Post by Rob on Nov 3, 2018 21:39:19 GMT
I realise this thread is quite old, but to answer the original question I would be prepared to pay a premium for a really high quality casting. How much of a premium is difficult to say. In my case, look at these castings for my buffer beam supports. I've paid for them, but I think they're likely to be useless, so that's just wasted money. I'm happy to pay extra for quality elsewhere - car parts, tools, music equipment, computer bits etc. so why not castings? IMAG1642, on Flickr IMAG1641, on Flickr The edge of the casting second from left is stuffed, and I can't see how I can clean it up without spending hours and hours and hours. In any case, the bracing is far too thin on these. Was very disappointed.
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Post by Roger on Nov 3, 2018 22:26:22 GMT
I realise this thread is quite old, but to answer the original question I would be prepared to pay a premium for a really high quality casting. How much of a premium is difficult to say. In my case, look at these castings for my buffer beam supports. I've paid for them, but I think they're likely to be useless, so that's just wasted money. I'm happy to pay extra for quality elsewhere - car parts, tools, music equipment, computer bits etc. so why not castings? The edge of the casting second from left is stuffed, and I can't see how I can clean it up without spending hours and hours and hours. In any case, the bracing is far too thin on these. Was very disappointed. Hi Rob, As you say, it's disappointing. I notice that you made the same error that I did and missed the fact that there is a hole in the corner of the gusset. I might machine that in if I can be bothered, it's a bit fiddly though and I don't want to mess them up.
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