Blow tourch advice

[westlin]

I need to buy a small handheld blow torch with a small precise flame. I bought various cheap ones of ebay that last about 5 minutes and then no longer work. Can anyone suggest one.

Thanks

Stephen

[JonL]

I'd be interested too, sorry I can't help though.

[westlin]

After a search last night the only one I could find that was a) compact and b)a known brand was a dremel one, £30 from screwfix, but if anyone can come up with anything else.

[uuu]

Not so compact, may not be small/precise enough, but good brand: Ebay:sievert torch

Wilf

[springcrocus]

Jul 12, 2019 6:40:44 GMT uuu said:

Not so compact, may not be small/precise enough, but good brand: Ebay:sievert torch

Wilf

Wow! 2100 degrees Centrigrade. We need one of those.

Regards, Steve

[timo]

Hi,

Many years ago I bought a small oxy-propane set from Halfords. Sadly the disposable oxygen cylinders soon became unobtainable but I still use the torch on propane only. It is much smaller than a Sievert or similar and great for silver soldering fittings and other small jobs. For boilers and bigger jobs you need something larger. Sievert are a good and respected make with a large variety of burners, handles etc. They are not cheap however.

Tim

[92220]

2100 degrees.........Absolute rubbish. That is the sort of temperature you may get from oxy acetylene, or oxy propane, in the hottest part of the flame. Mild steel melts between 1350 and 1530 degrees C depending on grade. No way can you melt steel with a Seivert. I've got one and it gets steel nowhere near melting!! You can get 2100C if the propane torch is oxygen fed (oxy-proane torch) but not a normal air fed Seivert.

Bob.

[ettingtonliam]

I don't know where the 2100C comes from, Sievert themselves don't seem to claim that (or indeed any temperature at all) on their website. Must be a figment of the ebay advertisers imagination.

I was horrified by one thing on the Sievert site, showing this portable torch apparently being used to heat the wheel nuts on a forklift truck wheel.
Are forklift tyres solid or inflatable? No matter, the picture suggests that you can heat wheel nuts.
One of the first fatalities I ever had any connection with, was a fitter heating the wheel nuts on a motor scraper wheel, with the tyre still in place, and inflated. The heat got to the tyre which exploded, blasting the fitter across the workshop. Don't do it.

[jasonb]

2100deg C comes from the Sievert catalogue, have a look at the gas canisters on page 44.

www.sievert.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Sievert-Global-Catalogue.pdf

That is the gas temp not what it will heat a bit wheel nut to. The MaPP gas is higher still

And Forklift tyres are generally solid rubber though there are exceptions like the ones you see hanging off the back of lorries where inflatable tyres are better suited to their use rather than solid ones on a smooth warehouse floor.

[ettingtonliam]

So it does, my apologies for missing that. They even have a disposable MAPP gas cartridge which they reckon gets to 2400C! Wonder how it does that without melting the nozzle?

I still think their ad is suggestive of loosening wheel nuts as a use for their torch. How many would stop to think ' hang on, forklift tyres are solid, thats safe, my car tyres are inflatable, thats not going to be safe?'

[92220]

Try googling mapp gas temperature That 2100 degrees is F not C. If you go to this site: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgSA8Rrn-nI you will see a Youtube video of the guy putting a temperature probe into the gas torch flame and it is registering 2299 F on the meter. This is the title of the video: MAPP GAS TEMERATURE WITH Fahrenheit DEGREE - If that 2100C came from the Sievert catalogue, it is a typo!!

To clear up the confusion and to show that it is F not C, I found a manufacturer of Mapp gas. This is from their site, you will see at 2 -, they refer to the '2299 degrees F as under condition of anaerobic combustion', which means 'without oxygen':-

Here we would like to introduce our factory profile for your simple understanding. RTM, a professional manufacture for producting MAPP GAS. We research and development our map gas since 2004.
First I would like inform you our map gas specification as below.
1.-----MAPP GAS bottle welding ,we authorized air plain manufacture for soldering our bottle to resist gas leakage perfectly.
The thread connection of MAPP GAS,it has standdard size of CGA600 and botte size are 75mm dia, 267 height. Portable soldering for using.
2-----MAPP GAS TEMPERATURE, the wedling temperature can be reached 2300oF under condition of anaerobic combustion welding(burning temperature 3600oF). The burning time can be gottten 2hours and 40mins continuance.
Weve been exporting our map gas nearly 3years and got good feedback from our customer, either quality or price. We are thinking that we may supply our map gas for enlarging your domestic market demand though our efforts.
Further more, we are dealing refrigeration industry for more than 10years, there are some of regular tools for you learning in our website. Kindly link as:www.retoent.com

[ettingtonliam]

Just checked, yes Sievert quote their temperatures in degrees C, not Farenheit, not just once but repeatedly.

Misleading information from Sievert. Trades Description Act? Wonder what their reaction will be when someone tries to tell them? Any volunteers?

[coniston]

I use both a MAPP gas torch (cheapest gas I've found locally is Toolstation) and an Oxyturbo set depending on what I am doing. For bigger jobs I use a Sievert torch

Oxyturbo torch like this: www.aboutroofing.com/turbo-set-90-lead-welding-lead-burning-kit.html

Chris D

[ettingtonliam]

And this one claims a 3050 deg C flame!

[ettingtonliam]

Just had a conversation with Sievert's technical guy in Wendsbury. The temperature figures come from Head Office in Sweden, have been used for a good number of years, and yes, they do mean Centigrade.

Googling MAPP gas, the Wikapedia (I know, I know) entry confirms the Centigrade figures.
I asked the guy why it didn't just melt the nozzle and the answer is that the flame doesn't actually contact the nozzle, theres a small gap between the end of the nozzle and the start of the flame envelope.

[jasonb]

As I said earlier the quoted temperatures are what the GAS can attain in a lab under standard test conditions eg at a certain room temp R/H value and baromic pressure with no losses etc and is commonly quoted by all the gas suppliers.

For us the wattage that the burner/gas combination can put out is what matters. That is why we use a big high wattage burner on a boiler and a small one for cooking, we have not altered the gas temp but the volume being burnt.

The OP did not say if he wanted a portable torch so if that is not needed than get a Sievert 8842 lightline burner and the small dia neck tube to suit.

Bit on the Bullfinch site that gives torch temp vs flame temp of gas

bullfinch-gas.co.uk/safety-and-technical/10-safety-technical/26-flame-temperatures

[92220]

I have to accept that I am a bit behind the times as far as brazing/welding gasses are concerned! I have done a lot of searching on the web to try and get a definitive answer. One site I found says mapp gas CAN be used for welding but it doesn't say for welding what. It does say that it should not be used for welding steel as it alters the chemical composition of the steel at the weld. However, just by making that warning, it does indicate that mapp gas can get hot enough to weld, though other sites say it needs a pressurised oxygen feed for this, like oxy-acetylene. I also came across a UK gov site that talks about the handing of Mapp cas cylinders and the dangers. This is one of the pages, that quotes a flame temperature, which I think we can accept as likely to be correct as it is a safety booklets that, I would guess, the Fire Service have had something to do with producing. The flame temperature for Mapp gas is quoted as 1034K....that is Kelvin. If you look up the conversion to celcius, the flame temperature comes out at 760.85 Celsius (°C). This is the UK Gov page:-





Bob

[ettingtonliam]

Well if thats true, and given that a propane flame is significantly cooler than a Mapp gas flame, it seems unlikely that Propane can melt silver solder, esp the 38% stuff. But we know it does -----.

Even more confused.

[chester]

Hi for silver soldering boiler type fittings in brass/bronze up to 5/8 diameter and steel up to 4mm i use the toolstation mapp gas torch it has a very precise flame about a inch or just over in length and about 5/16 wide.With the parts standing on ceramic brick it gets the parts up to temperature quite quickly and saves getting the big torch and propane out for small jobs.Graham

[rrmrd66]

Hello Westlin

I have one of these:

www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding-Supplies/Mini-Gas-Welding-Kit-2.html

Excellent. Good quality torch. Small and medium nozzles. Helpful supplier

Good Luck

Malcolm