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Post by springcrocus on Jun 21, 2020 18:28:11 GMT
Talking of dangly bits!From this piece of 3mm stainless plate Would a purchased cast one have been a little easier? Probably, but a proper engineer makes one and an armchair engineer buys one.
Regards, Steve
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Post by simplyloco on Jun 22, 2020 17:15:18 GMT
As I'm a 'Proper' precision engineer I had to make another one!  I made life easier this time with two filing buttons.  Marked up for the hook cutout.  Finished pair. That's close enough, I'm not looking for a Gold Medal! I'll connect the links tomorrow.  |
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 961 
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Post by don9f on Jun 22, 2020 19:59:13 GMT
I see you’ve remembered to make a LH and a RH one 😀
They really are very good but I’ll show my ignorance....what are they actually for on the real engine?
Don
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Post by simplyloco on Jun 22, 2020 21:14:47 GMT
I see you’ve remembered to make a LH and a RH one 😀 They really are very good but I’ll show my ignorance....what are they actually for on the real engine? Don Used in case the main coupling failed apparently! John |
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,922
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Post by jma1009 on Jun 22, 2020 22:41:25 GMT
Hi John,
I very much doubt this..."Used in case the main coupling failed". The Guard's compartment on the train had a spare coupling; and still does to this day on Loco Hauled Coaching Stock (LHCS in the Rule Book).
It just seems to me to be a peculiar 'fetish' of Stirling of no practical purpose whatsoever; but I hasten to add I know very little about GNR locos other than the colour of reverser handles and safety valve cover shape.
Anyway, very nicely reproduced, and in stainless too.
Cheers,
Julian
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on Jun 23, 2020 7:35:08 GMT
Perhaps the clue is in the name - 'Horse Hook' could they have used horses on the yard to do shunting in 1870, perhaps in the event of a breakdown?
Yes - two Shires can pull 45 Tons on wheels on the flat.
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Post by simplyloco on Jun 23, 2020 8:19:37 GMT
Perhaps the clue is in the name - 'Horse Hook' could they have used horses on the yard to do shunting in 1870, perhaps in the event of a breakdown? Yes - two Shires can pull 45 Tons on wheels on the flat. That sounds more probable! John |
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Jun 23, 2020 8:22:09 GMT
Hi John, I very much doubt this..."Used in case the main coupling failed". The Guard's compartment on the train had a spare coupling; and still does to this day on Loco Hauled Coaching Stock (LHCS in the Rule Book). It just seems to me to be a peculiar 'fetish' of Stirling of no practical purpose whatsoever; but I hasten to add I know very little about GNR locos other than the colour of reverser handles and safety valve cover shape. Anyway, very nicely reproduced, and in stainless too. Cheers, Julian John was right in the first place and they were in fact "Used in case the main coupling failed". They were not used instead of the main coupling but if the main coupling failed while the train was running then the safety chains kept the train together. Remember that in the early days trains did not have continuous brakes and a broken coupling was a potential disaster. Also the very early vacuum brakes were were "simple" vacuum and did not act if the pipes parted. Regards JM |
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 961
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Post by don9f on Jun 23, 2020 11:27:12 GMT
So does the tender have these emergency hooks as well? Two more might be required!
Don
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Post by simplyloco on Jun 23, 2020 14:27:10 GMT
So does the tender have these emergency hooks as well? Two more might be required! Don This recent NRM video shows the tender rear end, and there ain't no chains...  John www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RbdBzZQ4Ck |
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Jun 23, 2020 15:10:16 GMT
So does the tender have these emergency hooks as well? Two more might be required! Don Yes, the tender will also have 2 safety hooks and chains as well as all the passenger stock from early periods. Not sure if freight stock would have been fitted with them. |
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Post by simplyloco on Jun 23, 2020 15:47:57 GMT
So does the tender have these emergency hooks as well? Two more might be required! Don Yes, the tender will also have 2 safety hooks and chains as well as all the passenger stock from early periods. Not sure if freight stock would have been fitted with them. My loco only hauled freight trains...  |
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Post by noggin on Jun 23, 2020 18:08:52 GMT
All British Pre grouping railway goods wagons coaches, and locomotives had these chains fitted encase the main hook failed,I do not think it lasted too long but that is the reason.
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Post by noggin on Jun 23, 2020 18:11:07 GMT
Also, Yes Your Stirling's Tender did have them at one time, I am pretty sure that the tender fitted now is not as old as the loco, Sure it is rebuilt, But it did have those chains when new.
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Post by 92220 on Jun 23, 2020 18:25:20 GMT
Yes. The NRM's Stirling tender is not the original fitted to the loco. I learned that from David Jenkinson, when I was researching railways colours, before the current museum was built and everything was in storage, and he was Curator.
Bob.
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Jun 23, 2020 18:46:08 GMT
Well, the tender question is answered and it would have had chains. I looked a little more into the subject and the Great Northern had an accident at Abbots Ripton in 1876 involving 2 express passenger trains. Neither train was fitted with continuous brakes and braking relied on 2 or 3 brake vans in each train with a guard who applied the hand brake on a whistled signal from the driver. The engines themselves were equipped only with tender brakes and in an emergency the engine was also put into reverse gear and steam applied (as well as sand).
After the Armagh runaway in 1889 with around 90 fatalities the use of automatic vacuum brakes on passenger trains was made compulsory. The need for safety chains would then disappear but whether they were then removed or left who knows.
Your Stirling number 1 was built in 1870 so at that stage would have had safety chains and no vacuum pipe on the front or on the tender.
How you depict your engine and at what period and which livery is of course your choice (rule 1 for railway modellers).
Whatever period you decide on and whatever chains it is certainly a fine looking model.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,922
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Post by jma1009 on Jun 24, 2020 22:20:51 GMT
I've read all the above posts.
What a load of ill-informed 'tosh'.
The GWR never had these additional hooks and chains, neither did in South Wales 'The Valley Lines' that became absorbed into the GWR in 1922/3 despite them all being uphill/downhill depending on which direction, and with the severe 1:30 gradient from Abercynon to Quakers Yard over which much of the steam coal to supply the Royal Navy was conveyed.
The LBSCR never used these additional hooks, despite it's up and down route from London over the North Downs then the South Downs. They were never used on Stroudley Terriers on the severe gradients on the South London Line and East London Line (huge gradient down and up between Rotherhithe and Wapping under The Thames) from 1872 onwards.
The GNR main lines had very few gradients apart from Copenhagen Tunnel exiting from Kings Cross.
What was the point of having these links on the front of the loco but not on the back of the tender - ergo - what was the point of having them on the front of a GNR express loco at all?
I think John has done a very good job of reproducing these links and in stainless which I very much like.
Cheers,
Julian
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Jun 25, 2020 5:52:02 GMT
I've read all the above posts. What a load of ill-informed 'tosh'. The GWR never had these additional hooks and chains, neither did in South Wales 'The Valley Lines' that became absorbed into the GWR in 1922/3 despite them all being uphill/downhill depending on which direction, and with the severe 1:30 gradient from Abercynon to Quakers Yard over which much of the steam coal to supply the Royal Navy was conveyed. The LBSCR never used these additional hooks, despite it's up and down route from London over the North Downs then the South Downs. They were never used on Stroudley Terriers on the severe gradients on the South London Line and East London Line (huge gradient down and up between Rotherhithe and Wapping under The Thames) from 1872 onwards. The GNR main lines had very few gradients apart from Copenhagen Tunnel exiting from Kings Cross. What was the point of having these links on the front of the loco but not on the back of the tender - ergo - what was the point of having them on the front of a GNR express loco at all? I think John has done a very good job of reproducing these links and in stainless which I very much like. Cheers, Julian It is very offensive to dismiss all contributors' posts as tosh and you clearly did not bother to even read them properly because they had nothing to do with the LBSCR or GWR. The posts related to the GNR and my posts were factual. The point of hooks on the front of a loco were obviously for double heading or tender first working. Regards JM |
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jun 25, 2020 7:27:05 GMT
I can't, at present, explain the purpose of those hooks, though I seemed to remember last night that I'd seen such hooks before. I had! They were a common fitting in Irish narrow gauge locos, such as the Tralee and Dingle, Londonderry & Lough Swilly, County Donegal Railways, Schull & Skibereen, in the UK on diverse lines such as the Rye and Camber, Jersey Railways and Tramways and the Isle of Man, but the better known Welsh narrow gauge lines didn't seem to have them. Locos which had them, seemed to have them front and rear.
Back to the Stirling Single. Until only a few years ago, the one in the NRM was paired with an out of period tender (Sturrock?), and the vast majority of photos taken since it was taken out of service (1905?) will be of it with this tender. I understand that not many years ago, a Stirling tender was found, which has been restored and is now coupled to the loco in York. I wonder if this tender has the hooks fitted?
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Post by springcrocus on Jun 25, 2020 7:52:51 GMT
John, just leave the damn things off! You could always say the Pikeys nicked them, if anyone asks.
Regards, Steve
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