Super Simplex 7 1/4

[uuu]

Jun 4, 2020 15:25:53 GMT KennLindeman said:

Question fir the people who have build a Super Simplex. What does the engine's weight and is the engine to heavy or to light. I am trying to see when I draw parts do I nee to make them heavier or lighter?

We used to lift the club one - one person each end. Now we're older, we prefer to use a crane. Say 55 Kilos?

Wilf

[builder01]

My Super Simmplex weighs about 125 pounds. I made the running boards a little thicker at 3/32" versus 1/16". I also used 1/16" brass for the water tanks and all of the plate work for the cab. You need as much weight as possible, especially at the back of the loco, as it is a bit front heavy.

As for the motion plates, they are mounted even with the tops of the frames. (unless you get the laser cut plates, which are not made quite right). The expansion link brackets are mounted to the motion plates by using the 3/16" hole and a bar going through the brackets to locate the entire assembly on the frame. As you can see on the print, there is no dimension for exactly where the motion plates mount, or, where the expansion link brackets mount to the motion plates. The 3/16" hole and a bar going through it, locates everything correctly. And, yes, this little bit of information is not in the Super Simplex text, only in the Simplex text.

It is good to have the complete text from both build threads, as there is information in each that is not in the other. Not a problem for an experienced builder, but, for a person like me, I needed all the help I could get!

I always encourage a builder to go with the Super Simplex design as it has fewer errors than the regular Simplex. Some folks are just stuck on building the old Simplex design no matter what.

David

[KennLindeman]

SO its been a busy 2 weeks between my business (dam paperwork) and family life but I have been working on the Simplex drawings. After having drawn up the 5' frame and valve gear to see how it works, I am back at the 7 1/4 drawings. Its a 3 part process, 1st draw the 5' drawing to make sure it all fits together, 2nd increase the size by 1.5 to get the imperial 7 1/4 drawing and then metricating for the actual drawing I want. Some may say why the long process. I am having Fun At the end of the day I hope to have 3 full sets of drawings of the Simplex which may even end up being 4 sets, 5' Imperial and Metric, 7 1/4 Imperial and metric

I have been playing with the axle boxes and trying to find a easy idea for the axle box and to use roller bearing and this is what i have come up with

Frame & Wheel Assy C by Kenneth Lindeman, on Flickr

Frame & Wheel Assy C 1 by Kenneth Lindeman, on Flickr

There are no horn blocks With the amount of work these engines do I don't see the need for them big horn blocks, And once clearance has been machined for the pivot motion of the axles as the engine rides though uneven tracks there is so little contact area on the sides.

Comments are welcome

[uuu]

Have a look at Station Road Steam's new build locomotives. They are using a similar bearing block and spring arrangement, so you have a proven design. They have a novel way of ensuring the wheel spacing and coupling rods match, see the assembly instructions on page 7 onwards of their build manual here.

Wilf

[KennLindeman]

Hi Wilf

Thanks for that link. Now that I see what they have done I may add side spacers to give a bigger wear area. I do think that I prefer my idea of having the springs on top. I have seen a bogie for a electric motor engine where they used the same pillar block bearing with out machining the top off, but don't think it will fit the Simplex. I am in the process of ordering the bearing so long so I can play around with the different ideas and see which one I think works better.

[KennLindeman]

Anybody care to comment on laser cutting the frames. Is it a good/bad idea to have the holes for the buffers and stretchers laser cut in at the same time or is this a drill operation???

[RGR 60130]

My own preferred option is to have the centres of any holes laser etched with a small cross. That also gives you the option of drilling them or not drilling them which may be useful when attempting a new design.

Reg

[uuu]

Have you thought of a tab-and-slot arrangement for the frames - so you can weld them up?

Wilf

[ilvaporista]

To locate the holes I cut a small 0.5mm radius hole at each required location. This works great in parts up to about 5mm thick and when you want holes bigger than the thickness of the plate.
Due to the cone that spreads out from the laser when it cuts the top surface there is a harder zone of material which can be difficult to drill. I have just done some 5mm holes in 10mm material and blunted the drill after each cut.
Obviously the 1mm hole will only be suitable if you need a hole bigger than that in the part. To locate holes sometimes I have added a feature to the external shape to locate the straight edge. This feature can then be cut off leaving no trace.
I do tend to laser cut the larger diameter holes but only when the diameter is greater than four times the material thickness and then only for clearance holes. You won't get a good enough surface finish or constant diameter to get e reliable fit.

[jcsteam]

I think a 7.1/4" Simplex is an interesting proposition, I have seen those take up bearings used in much larger locos than the Simplex will be in 7.1/4". Also CMD use these bearings in their carriage bogies. What thickness are the frames as if memory serves me the slot is 12mm wide in the bearings, and the frames would be around 5mm. So you would need to adjust with hornblock "packing" to the correct width of the wheel, with some endfloat to allow the movement of the suspension, without been too slack, 11mm isnt a supplied thickness, so this would have to be milled or made up from 8mm and 3mm flats. Will they just be a metal keep bolted to the frames to stop the wheels falling out, or have you another solution up your sleeve.
How are you getting on with the errors in the 5" version, I drew much of the chassis when i was learning Fusion 360, (still no expert). The issues that i found meant the 3D version never really got very far.

Regards
Jon

[KennLindeman]

Thanks for the interest in what I am doing. So for now I was thinking of machining them narrower and putting a slot in. I will still sort out the side play as I have ordered 2 bearings to play with and test. The bearings already pivot in the housing. The other problem I have is that std springs 10mm dia are 15mm (shortest)long which is a problem as if you machine deeper than 10mm you will machine into the bearing. I may have to machine deeper in the frame to allow for this. I need to progress further with the cad drawings to see how much space I have

Axlebox Assy C by Kenneth Lindeman, on Flickr

I had to spend time creating folders for the different engines and I was getting lost while looking for drawings and then trying to fit imperial parts to the metric drawing. Anyway I think i have that sorted now.

[uuu]

I see the spring pockets are offset to the outside of the bearing assembly. Do you think this will create a rotational moment that will have to be countered by the frame in the slot? If this was a concern, you could centralise the spring pockets, and have the top of the springs pressing on an angle fixed to the inside of the frame.

Wilf

[KennLindeman]

HI Wilf Thanks for the comment. I have looked at moving the springs to the center and and putting in a angle bracket. The springs are going to foul against the side of the frames And that's with the 10mm spring. I don't even think 10mm springs are going to be strong enough for the weight. I am going to put this in the parking lot for now and get back to it once I have put the Valve gear back onto the assembly

[uuu]

Four springs - one in each corner?

Wilf

[laserman]

Interested in this how are you getting on?

[KennLindeman]

Hi Have not done much last 2 yrs Been ill which a heart that felt it needed some tlc, but i am on the mend. I have been spending some time in my workshop which was a real mess. I will however been spending time in the next couple weeks to finish off the drawings

[laserman]

Glad to hear your getting better! Would be good to see some more pictures of the drawings as you go im keen to build a 7 1/4 simplex as well im from New Zealand

[KennLindeman]

Testing