dc309
Seasoned Member
Posts: 146
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Post by dc309 on Dec 10, 2019 21:00:37 GMT
Hi all,
I've just bought a second hand Warco Major mill, which has a 3MT spindle in it. I need to buy something to hold the cutters in...
I've been looking at various ER collet chucks and collets on offer by Warco themselves, Chronos,RDG etc.Are the quality of these any good and would they be worth buying?
The other thought I had was to buy some 3MT collets to fit straight into the spindle.
If anybody could advise which would be better and of any decent makes/suppliers, I would be most grateful.
Thanks in advance!
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,062
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Post by jem on Dec 11, 2019 18:07:11 GMT
The equipment from these suppliers is all Chinese, but I have found it all to be good, Holding tools in a morse taper worked for me, And this means that you have only one tool holder, if you use ER, you then have two, the morse taper, and the ER chuck, which I dont think is so good, but I am sure others will have other ideas, and perhaps better than mine! With morse taper you are limited to the size of tool that it will hole, and ER40 collets will hold bigger tools. I would buy or make morse taper tool holders initially, and maybe you will buy the collets later if or as needed.
bet wishes
Jem
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Post by Jo on Dec 11, 2019 18:32:48 GMT
The use of MT collets will give you more head room. The collets are specific sizes with little variation (e.g. you will need both a 6mm and a 1/4"). You will need to be able to lock the quill to tighten the collet. An ER collet chuck and collets has a greater holding range (a 1/4" ER collet will hold both the 1/4 tool as well as the 6mm) But you will loose head room. Most people tend to use one of these until they realise they cannot fit the work under the nose of their mill and go get the MT collets out. You can buy these directly from China for a pittance (actually even in the UK: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110230-MT3-MT4-BT40-ER32-15PC-Milling-Lathe-Collet-Chuck-Set-3-to-20mm/272292204302?hash=item3f65e14f0e:m:mwi4CeM5hMMcjY76EPl9Y2g ) Chinese tooling is soft (can damage) but cheap and probably more accurate than you need to worry about at home. Jo
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rrmrd66
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 339
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Post by rrmrd66 on Dec 11, 2019 18:35:20 GMT
Hello dc309 I have a Warco Super Major. You can read my experiences somewhere in this section. (See Warco Super Major Vario Milling Machine in June 2017.) I have the R8 fitting with draw bar. In my opinion a draw bar is absolutely essential when milling. Although Jem, above, finds a Morse taper fitting OK. There has been correspondence lately that you may have seen regarding how tight one should do a collet chuck up . My experience is that it should be as tight as possible, then plus a bit! Make sure that there is a spanner flat on the quill shaft as well as the segmented multi slot nut on the collet. Does your Morse 3MT taper fitting use a draw bar? Maybe there is a conversion available. I don't know others will advise. As Jem points out most of the suppliers get their products from China and India. They all seem to be good in my experience, as are the distributors you mention. Go for Carbide cutters they are better than High Speed Steel. You don't say what you want to mill. Your avatar shows a narrow gauge engine, I think. I have been building a 5" gauge quarry Hunslet from Reeves castings and the largest cutter I have is a 16mm HSS end mill in an ER 30 collet which is adequate for 95% of the time. A Fly cutter from RDG helps for large flat surfaces of which there are not that many. My standard go-to cutter is a 12mm carbide end mill from: www.shop-apt.co.uk › carbide-end-mills Remember this is a hobby, not industrial production, so relax, take small cuts and enjoy. Good Luck Malcolm Usual disclaimers etc.
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Post by coniston on Dec 12, 2019 0:42:36 GMT
Hello dc309, I have a MT3 ER32 collet chuck for my Sieg X3 mill, held with a draw bar. Having previously used a Clarkson collet chuck in a previous mill I have to say I like the ER32 being able to grip non threaded cutters, fly cutters, slitting saw arbours etc. Just tighten well and you shouldn't have any problems. The other benefit as previously mentioned is the grip range the collets have, so not specific to just imperial or metric. Just one word of caution, depending on the amount the collet has to close around the cutter you may find when undoing the nose ring it suddenly releases and the cutter can drop onto your work/table/vice and be damaged. I tend to have my finger under the cutter to prevent a sudden drop. See my thread 'braking for a passenger trolley' for some pictures in use.
Chris D
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Post by jon38r80 on Dec 13, 2019 9:17:58 GMT
I have a smaller mill, WM16 and use a Chinese made ER25 collet chuck on MT2 taper. takes up a 16mm cutter without Problem. Suggest you get a ball bearing collet nut to go with whichever size you end up with as it makes tightening up properly easy. Others have complained of cutters pulling out but the only time it happened to me was my fault for not tightening the chuck properly.
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dc309
Seasoned Member
Posts: 146
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Post by dc309 on Dec 26, 2019 11:51:12 GMT
Hello all,
Apologies for the delayed reply!
Many thanks for all your responses to my question.
The mill does have a drawbar setup, so I will probably go with a set of ER32 collets and a Chuck and see what happens.
I've been building (for some time) a 5 inch Dougal, but having had to move a couple of times my previous machines had to go. My last mill had an R8 setup which was nice and easy to use, hence having no knowledge of ER collets etc.
Now the big question is... Are any of the suppliers better than the others in terms of quality of goods?
Many thanks again, Dan
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Post by 92220 on Dec 27, 2019 9:22:11 GMT
Hi Dan.
If you buy from an industrial supplier, the concentricity is much better than from m.e. suppliers. I bought a set of ER11 collets and chuck from a well known m.e. supplier and it was "OK" with the chuck running out at 0.0005" TIR, but only after I had had to send the first set back because the chuck cone was running out by 0.003" TIR. I then saw an advert for a set of ER11 collets with all the 1/2 mm sizes included, so I bought a set. They came from Cromwell Tools. The concentricity of the Cromwell supplied collets was so good the DTI hardly moved. I would guess 2 or 3 tenths TIR at most. Since buying them I have noticed that industrial advertisers often quote the accuracy of the collets in their blurb. So you have to decide how accurate you want your collets to run, and pay accordingly.
Bob.
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sis
Seasoned Member
Posts: 112
Member is Online
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Post by sis on Jan 1, 2020 21:34:50 GMT
Hi,
Happy new year.
I’ve found the cheaper collets are not de-burred properly, and with a little patience issues can be corrected. Second source of errors can be a bad quality nut.
Steve
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Neale
Part of the e-furniture
5" Black 5 just started
Posts: 276
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Post by Neale on Jan 3, 2020 19:54:16 GMT
Someone above mentioned ball-bearing collets - I think that that should have been ball-bearing collet closing nut. And they are well worth using to get a better grip with less spanner force needed, especially when holding larger cutters/taking heavier cuts. I bought mine from Arc but I'm sure they are available elsewhere.
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